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Old 10 Feb 2009, 13:37 (Ref:2392342)   #1
yuragagarin1961
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Richard Lloyd/Italiya 1990 Isuzu 3.5l V12 Gr. C

Greetings to all,

I am searching for any possible information about the 1990 or 1991 Group C sportscar project which Mr. Peter Elleray would have developed and nearly finished for Richard Lloyd and Japanese sponsor Italiya, which would have been powered by the 3.5 V12 Isuzu powerplant. I could only add that Italiya stopped backing the project, and that that completely finished it.

Thank you,

david
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Old 10 Feb 2009, 22:46 (Ref:2394189)   #2
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You could try PMing Peter via this forum?
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Old 11 Feb 2009, 08:41 (Ref:2394341)   #3
yuragagarin1961
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Thank you. I tried a private message weeks ago to Mr. Elleray through this forum, but I have had not reply to date. I very much wished he could give us some insight into the subject of this most exciting project.
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Old 11 Feb 2009, 12:20 (Ref:2395382)   #4
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In the event you do dig something up, either through PM or off-forum research I'd be really interested to see what's found - as I am sure would many others on the forum.

Please do post what you come up with!
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Old 11 Feb 2009, 13:47 (Ref:2395437)   #5
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Originally Posted by yuragagarin1961
Thank you. I tried a private message weeks ago to Mr. Elleray through this forum, but I have had not reply to date. I very much wished he could give us some insight into the subject of this most exciting project.
very unreliable bloke elleray, cant trust him to reply to anything...

dont read too much into this project. richard was indeed trying to put together a 3.5 Gp C car based around the v12, the connection being Peter Stevens who at the time was employed on the mclaren but had just finished the elan. Peter was a member of Richards Gp C team in 1990 - as indeed was Ken sears, ex Surtees designer but by then a senior engineer at Lotus Cars. Richard had quite a decent team but the economic climate of 1990-91 killed GTi engineering and the Gp C team. btw elsewhere on the web at the moment (tnf) there is interest in the isuzu -lotus f1 connection.

the project got no further (with me) than an overall layout drawing and styling model. i think Richard was also talking to other designers - Paul Brown and John Mangoletsi would be one group - and he may have simultaneously progressed their proposals further than mine, i dont know.

anyway, the car that i schemed was very like the TS010 ineterstingly enough- front radiator, inboard rocker and pushrod suspension - but with a narrow Peugeot type chassis. separate steel roll cage. full doors as we hadnt seen what you could do with the rules if your name was peugeot as yet.. the v12 was inclined up to the rear - like a 962 flat 6 - and it used a hewland VGC gearbox.

timespan was summer 1990 - it was all over before the winter of 1990-91 when i moved to norfolk to join Tom's and ended up working on TS010!

Incidentally i am still trying to escape from Norfolk 20 years on and if anyone has the required set of i.d papers and can direct me to the swiss frontier i would be obliged.

peter
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Old 11 Feb 2009, 15:58 (Ref:2395492)   #6
yuragagarin1961
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Dear Mr. Elleray,

Immense thanks!! It's me who is behind the other -recent- threads regarding the Isuzu engine, and it has been Peter Stevens who told me all I knew to date regarding your sportscar project; since I haven't stopped trying contacting you thorugh companies for which you developed sportscar projects recently, but sadly they wouldn't very much help me.

I know I am asking for too much already, but if you could show me a picture of the scale model, that would be priceless for me, the true jewell, crown of my investigation.

For long months now, I have been also in contact with people who was involved in the other, F1 incarnation of the Isuzu engine, and I am in the process of builiding up its short story there too.

Again, immense most sincere thanks!!
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Old 11 Feb 2009, 16:28 (Ref:2395518)   #7
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Originally Posted by yuragagarin1961
Dear Mr. Elleray,

Immense thanks!! It's me who is behind the other -recent- threads regarding the Isuzu engine, and it has been Peter Stevens who told me all I knew to date regarding your sportscar project; since I haven't stopped trying contacting you thorugh companies for which you developed sportscar projects recently, but sadly they wouldn't very much help me.

I know I am asking for too much already, but if you could show me a picture of the scale model, that would be priceless for me, the true jewell, crown of my investigation.

For long months now, I have been also in contact with people who was involved in the other, F1 incarnation of the Isuzu engine, and I am in the process of builiding up its short story there too.

Again, immense most sincere thanks!!
hi - sorry, i have no photos of the model - and obviously its too late now to ask richard...

peter
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Old 11 Feb 2009, 16:32 (Ref:2395521)   #8
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Thank you very much, nevertheless.

May I ask a question? Was the endurance version of the engine your worked around any different from which the one that would appear later at the back of the Lotus (August 1991) and at the Tokyo Motorshow in Dec 1991? Did you ever see the powerplant? Might you remember any other detail about the whole operation... ??

Thank you, d.
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Old 11 Feb 2009, 18:30 (Ref:2395595)   #9
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Originally Posted by yuragagarin1961
Thank you very much, nevertheless.

May I ask a question? Was the endurance version of the engine your worked around any different from which the one that would appear later at the back of the Lotus (August 1991) and at the Tokyo Motorshow in Dec 1991? Did you ever see the powerplant? Might you remember any other detail about the whole operation... ??

Thank you, d.
hi -sorry, i never saw the engine, just had a few outline dimensions. as i said, you shouldnt read too much into this - it never really went anywhere.

peter
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Old 11 Feb 2009, 19:05 (Ref:2395620)   #10
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Many thanks,Mr. Elleray. Now we've got at least a sort of good - accurate tale about it; a pitty it wouldn't go further ahead.

Regarding the use of the Isuzu powerplant, another project was mentioned back in those years, involving the use of Lola chasis, to be run by Vern Schuppan in the Japanese Sportscar Championship.

Another, increased capacity Isuzu V12 engine was also seriously considered to power the McLaren F1. Isuzu would have been glad to design and supply the new powerplant, but McLaren wanted some race pedigree in it to give more credit to their creation. Had it run succesfully in any of the aforementioned or in the Lotus before, Isuzu name might have had that race-pedigree McLaren wanted from their engine supplier, and that would have changed their image of 'lorry builders', as was their will.

I wonder if Isuzu V12 were anywhere considered for anything else!

Dear Mr. Elleray, I always also wondered if ever there was a subsequent project to the TS010 at Tom's, or at least a serious evolution, to counter the Peugeot mighty efforts.

Immense thanks for everything.
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Old 11 Feb 2009, 19:42 (Ref:2395638)   #11
peter_elleray
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Originally Posted by yuragagarin1961
Many thanks,Mr. Elleray. Now we've got at least a sort of good - accurate tale about it; a pitty it wouldn't go further ahead.

Regarding the use of the Isuzu powerplant, another project was mentioned back in those years, involving the use of Lola chasis, to be run by Vern Schuppan in the Japanese Sportscar Championship.

Another, increased capacity Isuzu V12 engine was also seriously considered to power the McLaren F1. Isuzu would have been glad to design and supply the new powerplant, but McLaren wanted some race pedigree in it to give more credit to their creation. Had it run succesfully in any of the aforementioned or in the Lotus before, Isuzu name might have had that race-pedigree McLaren wanted from their engine supplier, and that would have changed their image of 'lorry builders', as was their will.

I wonder if Isuzu V12 were anywhere considered for anything else!

Dear Mr. Elleray, I always also wondered if ever there was a subsequent project to the TS010 at Tom's, or at least a serious evolution, to counter the Peugeot mighty efforts.

Immense thanks for everything.
well apart from the audi r8c and the bentley dynasty, no, nothing much...
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Old 6 Mar 2009, 14:09 (Ref:2410395)   #12
yuragagarin1961
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Hello again,

I started a thread about 'missing' early 1990s Group C projects here:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113334

Looking forward for your contributions!
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Old 11 Mar 2009, 16:54 (Ref:2413742)   #13
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When you good folks have finished with this, can I ask one of the mods to send this thread over to the History forum. Thanks, in advance!
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