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16 Oct 2013, 19:23 (Ref:3318575) | #2451 | |
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The bridgestone tires were specifically designed for the DW. They may be oval racing tires though as thats the DW's original intent?
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16 Oct 2013, 19:35 (Ref:3318579) | #2452 | ||
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16 Oct 2013, 19:48 (Ref:3318587) | #2453 | |||
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Based on how it looks relative to cars behind or in front of it we know it's slower through slow corners where aero doesn't really matter but the hard tires do. Do we have any evidence it's slower in sweepers, where the aero does matter? |
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16 Oct 2013, 19:48 (Ref:3318588) | #2454 | |
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Indy is the goal. A good tire there is all that matters. The road courses are a side show I think its the shape of the car. It went well at the high speed tracks even under the Nissan guise. PLM and LeMans. This year one of its best showings was Road America. But those medium to low speed tracks do no favors to it. They didnt bother to race Baltimore
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16 Oct 2013, 21:36 (Ref:3318649) | #2455 | ||
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The Deltawing's highest average was just 137mph. Considerably less than the cars built to restrictive aero rules. Don't get me wrong; I believe the aero figures published for the Deltawing are most likely correct, so that would suggest the chassis/tyre arrangement must be a massive disadvantage when you consider just how much slower the Deltawing is through those sweeping corners where you'd think it would excel considering it was built without the aerodynamic restrictions of the "normal" cars... |
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16 Oct 2013, 23:40 (Ref:3318675) | #2456 | |
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Thats what I think as well. Good at low drag areas, not so good in those turns.
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17 Oct 2013, 02:24 (Ref:3318713) | #2457 | ||
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Wasn't that what everyone was saying in the beginning? How will it do in the turns?
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17 Oct 2013, 02:49 (Ref:3318714) | #2458 | ||
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I'd like to see a comparison of both versions of the DWing.
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17 Oct 2013, 03:28 (Ref:3318719) | #2459 | |||
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Maybe the outer rear gets worked over pretty bad and a four square car is evening out the workload better? On the other hand, from a driver's perspective, given the choice between two cars with dead equal lap times on a given circuit, which would you rather have? A car that is faster through the turns? A car that is faster on the straight? It's an example of why we need rules that allow more design freedom. Different teams would take different approaches. |
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17 Oct 2013, 05:11 (Ref:3318735) | #2460 | |
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A combo of speed through turns and the straight is the best.
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17 Oct 2013, 20:26 (Ref:3319148) | #2461 | ||
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17 Oct 2013, 21:18 (Ref:3319178) | #2462 | |
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you can have great cornering speed and still be blocked behind the slower car in front of you - while in a corner. but if you have great straight line speed, you pass them easily on the next straight. especially in a race with long straights, a well sorted DW would do great. in fact, the real potential of this concept will come out with the zeod, as it looks like a real evolution of the original DW with some interesting solutions and what looks like is a completely different underbody.
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17 Oct 2013, 23:33 (Ref:3319248) | #2463 | ||
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Exactly!
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18 Oct 2013, 01:06 (Ref:3319267) | #2464 | ||
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So you mean like DP vs P2?
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18 Oct 2013, 01:15 (Ref:3319271) | #2465 | |
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18 Oct 2013, 08:59 (Ref:3319358) | #2466 | |||
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Quote:
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18 Oct 2013, 12:51 (Ref:3319441) | #2467 | ||
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The Panoz DW has really gone backwards in terms of development. Last year at Road Atlanta, the Nissan DW was able to keep pace with the P2 cars and finished 5th overall. This year so far in the dry test sessions, the Panoz DW has been about 3-4 seconds slower than the best lap of last year's car. We'll see how today's practice and qualifying sessions go, as they should get some more good dry running in, but this coupe is not a step forward at all. It will need some massive changes to be competitive in the Prototype class. This doesn't bode well for Panoz being able to sell any to customers.
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18 Oct 2013, 21:24 (Ref:3319601) | #2468 | |
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Petit Le Mans qualifying speed comparison:-
(I've removed the slowest LMP1 because it had its fast lap disallowed due to a penalty; causing a red flag, and was therefore skewing the results). Last edited by Machin; 18 Oct 2013 at 21:40. |
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22 Oct 2013, 04:43 (Ref:3321449) | #2469 | |
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Machin, this video just in! Bowlby says the zeod is at 1400 kg "suction under the car at 200 mph", see here around 3:14 min:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=kuN1WH7_sQE This is actually some fantastic downforce numbers! |
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22 Oct 2013, 07:23 (Ref:3321480) | #2470 | |
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Those numbers are for the ZEOD, not for the Deltawing Coupe.
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22 Oct 2013, 07:34 (Ref:3321486) | #2471 | ||
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Having got the roadster running well at Road America it makes you wonder what is obviously wrong with the coupe. Would be interesting to know if they ever put it in a wind tunnel.
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22 Oct 2013, 11:19 (Ref:3321581) | #2472 | |
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The diffweence is, Panoz lacks the engineering ability provided by Ben Bowlby.
The DWing is Bowlby's baby and he has no doubt been thinking about it for several years. He has a history of great designs, and that design ability is something money cannot buy (ask every team on the F1 grid what they would trade for Adrian Newey.) The DWing LM12 probably has a very competent team of operators, it just lacks a genius designer. For another crew to take over the DWing and try to redesign it would be like me trying to maintain an F1 car. I might be able to keep a ten-year-old Honda on the road, but anything much more than that would simply be beyond me. The Panoz team can run the DWing, but they went a step further and tried to redesign it, with a new monocoque and bodywork, and while I am sure their designers and engineers are top-flight, they aren't Ben Bowlby. That said, I really hope they can make the thing work. Foer such a promising concept to flop because of the economics and politics of racing would be a shame. Of course, it is very possible the ZEOD will be building TUSC-legal version in a couple years. That will be an interesting situation---how will the TUSC board feel about allowing a superior DWing clone to compete with its own version? |
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22 Oct 2013, 11:29 (Ref:3321584) | #2473 | ||
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22 Oct 2013, 13:04 (Ref:3321627) | #2474 | |
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Yes, they are. I should have written it in caps, you are right, this is abbreviation, not a name....
Machin posted the DW numbers, so I thought it would be good to have the ZEOD numbers. It gets quite clear what went on in both camps when you look at the numbers.... |
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22 Oct 2013, 19:12 (Ref:3321800) | #2475 | ||
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Quote:
The ZEOD will apparently weigh about 700kg, so 1400kg of downforce equates to 2000kg per ton.... i.e. less per ton than the original (open top) Deltawing. Interestingly the panoz team are claiming that their coupe has about 8% less downforce than the open top version.... so that would be about 1932kg per ton at 200mph. So the ZEOD will supposedly have slightly more downforce (relative to its weight) than the Panoz Deltawing Coupe, but relatively less then the original Deltwing... All are way higher than the figures being claimed by the LMP2 cars... will be interesting to see how fast the ZEOD takes the Porsche Curves next year..... bearing in mind that in 2012 the LMP2's were much quicker through these corners despite "only" having about 1685kg/ton of downforce at 200mph... Last edited by Machin; 22 Oct 2013 at 19:17. |
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