IndyCar Silly Season

[GP Racer]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

IPS champions haven't exactly done well in the IRL though, it jsut doesn't seem to be a strong series, and the small fields mean that you get little experience of close-quarters running. When outsiders come in, they get the job done to a high standard much more quickly - the addition of road racing simply furthers the extent of that.

The problem really seems to be that the IPS drivers are not getting a chance at any of the top rides though. There always starting at the bottom, in uncompetitive teams, as are American drivers. Guy's like Kannan, Wheldon, Franchitti, Castroneves, Manning, Dixon, Meira, and Matsurra all went to top teams right out of the gate. Can we think of any American drivers who have had such luck? It really hurts the IRL's credibility, and the IPS, when drivers with no IndyCar expierience, or time on ovals, can come in and grab a top seat like this.

Ironically, we now have an Aussie/NZ team in the IRL, but no American team. American open wheel racers are going the way of the dinosaurs I'm afraid, and I could envision the day when they'll only be one or two left in the IRL, just like the other series. It won't be long before Red Bull will have to have an American driver search for IndyCar racing...

[BootsOntheSide]

Franchitti, Castroneves, Dixon and Kanaan all proved themslves in less-competitive CART rides before coming to the IRL though. And it took Meira 2 years to get a decent full-time ride, and that was at expense of Jourdain having one in CART.

Looking at it from another perspective, how many drivers who've done well in non-oval junior formulae have come into the IRL and flopped? If a few high-profile guys were to struggle, team owners would look towards the US again.

[evo]

Originally Posted by mac

Because driving on ovals is easy.

Take it from Sebastien Bourdais, Justin Wilson and any other European drivers that have tried them.

And you're basing this on thier fine performances at Milwaukee the past couple years, are you? Both Sebastien and Justin have seemed nothing but lost on that particular oval in every race they've done there. So there goes your argument.

Ovals are not easy.

[Kicking-back]

Justin Wilson has only done one race at Milwaukee - seems harsh to draw conclusions from that...

[evo]

True, but it would also be ridiculous to conclude that he and Bourdais find ovals easy... And that was my point.

[Kicking-back]

That's true as well.

But this is motor-racing - people will always draw instant conclusions, however inaccurate

[mac]

There are plenty of instances of purebred roadracers jumping in and going quick on ovals straight away. Junqueira (also an F1 tester) qualified on pole at his first attempt. Manning was quick in his first crack at Rockingham (admittedly he'd done some tin-top oval races), Bourdais has been quick at times, Montoya, Zanardi, Helio Castroneves ....

My point is that it is not a big stretch for a proven roadracer to be rapid on ovals.

And I think Justin's comment was that ovals were boring - not easy ..... my bad.

[Teretonga]

Ovals are not easy but set up is critical and without a good set up or experience to arrive at a good set up you can founder no matter how good you are at road racing. The engineering expertise of a good team can make a difference in supporting their driver.

[Hazza]

Nigel Mansell said that there is nothing special about ovals - you get corners like stowe that are the same speed. The only difference is that you come up on them every 10 seconds.

[evo]

Nigel who found out the hard way that ovals can seriously bite you when he backed into the wall at Phoenix in his first try there and didn't race again til Long Beach... where he was an inch shorter.

[marcus]

actually to be pedantic KB Wilson also drove at las vegas , so thats 2 ovals , but im being nit picky there

[Kicking-back]

To be even more nit picky, marcus, I know he drove at Las Vegas - my response was to the poster who suggested Wilson had done a two races at Milwaukee.

But we're spiltting hairs now

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by mac

Because driving on ovals is easy.

Take it from Sebastien Bourdais, Justin Wilson and any other European drivers that have tried them.

I would bet that if you ask Johnny Herbert, who spent two weeks in May 2002 trying unsuccessfuly to qualify for the Indy 500, that he would tell you that ther is a lot more to it than turnng left...

Plus it involves a lot different set of parameters to get the set-ups right...

Finally, both CART and OWRS for Sebastien, and only OWRS for Justin have run high downforce packages on the ovals where they have competed....

Seabass -- Lautzenring, Milwaukee, Las Vegas...did he run Rockingham in England? Can't remember if he did...

Justin -- Milwaukee and Las Vegas...

and finally...

If ovals are so "easy" for Seabass, why didn't he run better at Milwaukee???

[BootsOntheSide]

Getting around an voal circuit is fairly easily - you just turn left 4 times.

Getting around an oval circuit faster than 20-40 other entries, by getting a good set-up together and finding the absolute optimum turn-in points isn't easy.

Winning an oval race by actually beating other cars in wheel-to-wheel action, including planning pit strategies, adjusting them to any yellow flags, and overtaking rivals and backmarkers when being half an inch too far to the left can mean serious injury - no one could say that's easy.

Herbert's circumstances were quite tough ultimately, because his team had no experience of that era's cars, and Johnny didn't have as much practice and qualifying time as everyone else thanks to his ALMS commitments. I'm sure that if he did a full IRL season he would do pretty well, even now.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Getting around an voal circuit is fairly easily - you just turn left 4 times.

Getting around an oval circuit faster than 20-40 other entries, by getting a good set-up together and finding the absolute optimum turn-in points isn't easy.

Winning an oval race by actually beating other cars in wheel-to-wheel action, including planning pit strategies, adjusting them to any yellow flags, and overtaking rivals and backmarkers when being half an inch too far to the left can mean serious injury - no one could say that's easy.

Herbert's circumstances were quite tough ultimately, because his team had no experience of that era's cars, and Johnny didn't have as much practice and qualifying time as everyone else thanks to his ALMS commitments. I'm sure that if he did a full IRL season he would do pretty well, even now.

Johnny drove for Eric Bachaelart's team at Indy, didn't he???

and that particular year, his stable mate...Laurence Redon.... qualified pretty well...

Johnny had his decent days, and he had his bad days in that two-week stretch....his big problem was keeping up with the changing track conditions and thus he was behind the curve on how to change the car to adapt to the changes in the track itself as it got hotter, cloudy, windy, etc. from day to day....

Plus Indy is unique, because there are only a couple of "Fast" ways around the place...if you miss your marks in just one of the four corners, your lap time will drop 2-3 mph.....it is a place that requires great precision from the driver to be consistently fast there.....

I have no doubt that Johnny could be quick if he ran a full season on ovals....but the point I'm making is that it is not all that easy...

In 2002, on some days he was fast enough to make the show....but on qualifying days, he was not....it is not easy to put four laps together as the track changes and make the show....

[evo]

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

Johnny drove for Eric Bachaelart's team at Indy, didn't he???

Nope, he was driving for Dusenberg in a Western Union sponsored car. I believe they had run about zero races before that.

And to defend myself, I never meant to suggest that Justin Wilson ran at Milwaukee twice. I do follow both sides rather closely so I know what goes on. I only wanted to point out that he hardly had an easy time of it at Milwaukee. I think it actually scared the **** out of him.

[GP Racer]

There is a rumor floating around that Michel Jourdain is looking for an Indy 500 ride with fellow countryman, Adrian Fernandez.

Could he be looking for the rumored seat in a possible third Fernandez car?

[Tenoch]

I think the biggest proof of Wilson's uncertainty on the Milwaukee oval was that not even the teamtrusted him enough to go out there with their new LOLA instead they senthim in there with their last year's Reynard. As far as Michel going to the IRL it is a move that wouldnt really surprise me or bother me, I think that move will help tip the scale of the Mexican fans who began giving the IRL a serious look after the Fernandez affair.

[mountainstar]

I read in the new autosport I got today that Rahal has completely lost the Centrix sponsorship to Boris Said in Nascar.

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I read in the new autosport I got today that Rahal has completely lost the Centrix sponsorship to Boris Said in Nascar.

The deal with MB2 Motorsports and Centrix was announced almost a month ago, and it's for 10 races. The official press releases mentioned nothing about Centrix dropping it's IndyCar sponsorship, so we'll see if Autosport has gotten word from a solid source or if it's just an assumption that can go either way.

Also, according to the IndyStar, Team Rahal-Letterman Racing will announce its three-car line-up tomorrow Wednesday, and the drivers will be, as expected, Buddy Rice, Vitor Meira and Danica Patrick.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by rustyfan

The deal with MB2 Motorsports and Centrix was announced almost a month ago, and it's for 10 races. The official press releases mentioned nothing about Centrix dropping it's IndyCar sponsorship, so we'll see if Autosport has gotten word from a solid source or if it's just an assumption that can go either way.

Also, according to the IndyStar, Team Rahal-Letterman Racing will announce its three-car line-up tomorrow Wednesday, and the drivers will be, as expected, Buddy Rice, Vitor Meira and Danica Patrick.

Autosport says "...and will feature sponsorship from Centrix Financial, which has jumped ship from the Rahal Letterman Racing IRL squad."

So I guess we'll see.

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Autosport says "...and will feature sponsorship from Centrix Financial, which has jumped ship from the Rahal Letterman Racing IRL squad."

So I guess we'll see.

Yes, we'll have to see. It's still Autosport's own wording though.

Logically, though, it wouldn't make sense jumping from a strong high-profile team that includes the most recent Indy 500 winner to a part-time NASCAR deal with a driver who hasn't produced anything, really, in terms of results on ovals yet (and, to be frank, most likely never will...).

[N I Tram]

If sponsors prefer to support a NASCAR nobody to an IndyCar title contender, it really doesn't say a lot for US open-wheel racing. Still, if Rahal still has the money to run 3 cars, it could be their loss.

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by N I Tram

If sponsors prefer to support a NASCAR nobody to an IndyCar title contender, it really doesn't say a lot for US open-wheel racing. Still, if Rahal still has the money to run 3 cars, it could be their loss.

Well, in his defense Boris Said is far from a nobody, having won a lot of sports car races as well as having done real well in the numerous stock-car road course races he's done in the past (including winning a few Busch and Craftsman Truck series races, IIRC).

Being competitive on ovals in NEXTEL Cup competition is something else though.

[N I Tram]

I'm well aware of Boris Said's excellent record as a road-course ringer, but the fact remains that for 8 of his 10 outings next season he is likely to be near the back, and the sportscar achievements mean very little when you're not sponsoring them. Also, dare I say that he isn't the most marketable driver, considering his Arabic background and confusingly-pronounced surname (to your average American, especially your average NASCAR fan)?