[BTCC] btcc round 19,20 and 21 knockhill 2017

[Akrapovic]

The only thing slower than the Honda is Newsham. No power what so ever.

[porsche962fan]

poor Collard

now Sutton finihed 4th....

[AdrianM]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

The only thing slower than the Honda is Newsham. No power what so ever.

BTCC BoP isn't based on straightline speed...

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by AdrianM

BTCC BoP isn't based on straightline speed...

I never said it was... I said the only thing slower was Newsham.

[luckn002]

Although not necessarily reflected in the results it was good to see the MGs more competitive today - as Knockhill doesn't suit the MGs perhaps they will be back at the front at Rockingham or Silverstone?

[AdrianM]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I never said it was... I said the only thing slower was Newsham.

Ok, the sky is blue and water is wet.

[850Estate]

Just back in. Today was decent enough, but driving standards still leave a lot to be desired. Most disappointing. Until something serious is done about it I can't see things changing either.

As an aside Charlie Eastwood pulled a pretty poor move on Dan Cammish in the PCCGB. It was potentially very dangerous and, given the quality of the battle between Eastwood, Cammish, Zamparelli and Oliphant totally ruined the race. I've had a look online and Eastwood has been docked three points, and handed a 10 place grid penalty. I know GT racing is different, but some stricter rules like that might avoid some of the stupid bumping and barging we saw today.

Good weekend for Subaru and BMW though, whilst Rory Butcher and Dave Newsham both did themselves proud on their home circuits. The Honda's were the pick of the FWD cars, but the conditions simply didn't suit them today. Morgan has had a season to forget, and things didn't get any better today, whilst the Hard VWs also struggled (as per) with the twisty nature of the circuit.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by 850Estate

Just back in. Today was decent enough, but driving standards still leave a lot to be desired. Most disappointing. Until something serious is done about it I can't see things changing either.

As an aside Charlie Eastwood pulled a pretty poor move on Dan Cammish in the PCCGB. It was potentially very dangerous and, given the quality of the battle between Eastwood, Cammish, Zamparelli and Oliphant totally ruined the race. I've had a look online and Eastwood has been docked three points, and handed a 10 place grid penalty. I know GT racing is different, but some stricter rules like that might avoid some of the stupid bumping and barging we saw today.

Good weekend for Subaru and BMW though, whilst Rory Butcher and Dave Newsham both did themselves proud on their home circuits. The Honda's were the pick of the FWD cars, but the conditions simply didn't suit them today. Morgan has had a season to forget, and things didn't get any better today, whilst the Hard VWs also struggled (as per) with the twisty nature of the circuit.

I don't think we can underestimate Ingrim either. He managed to gap the Honda after every safety car. He did very very well.

[S griffin]

I thought the standards, even if they haven't been that bad IMHO, were very good today, despite a few incidents. Drivers seemed to back out of moves if they hadn't quite got the overlap and also room was left when cars were side by side impressive

Plato got pole by being last man standing, but it seems the diff change has really helped him and now should not be underestimated. Although it annoys me when O'Neill keeps saying 'we need Plato at the front' because that just demeans drivers like Colin, Ash, Flash and Tingram, who have kept us excited. Ash certainly looks like he could do it in only his second season of tin top racing and Cole, well it started at Croft R1 when he was running well before collecting his broadside team mate, then a brilliant meeting at Snetterton and abtly for a Scooby driver gets a 555 result (couldn't resist that one). And Price shouldn't have done what he did, but it was nice to see him up there getting stuck in, it seems every driver is having at least one moment in the limelight this season, such is the competitiveness.

Colin consistent as ever to lead the title and Flash getting at least one great result at the weekend as he has done this season, it's far from predictable who is gonna do it. Shame Rob threw it off in R3, he seems to get better each season with age and seems to be more than a match for his world class team mate Colin

Tingram, great to see him winning again. Probably too late to get back in the title, the car seems not as competitive as it was at the beginning of the season

Newsham was good to see him at the front, his move round the outside at the hairpin must be the move of the season. Proctor looked good up there, shame AJ let ambition get the better of him at the start of R2 and ruin Proctor's weekend. Credit to PMR and Team Parker for getting both cars out for R3. Also Butcher really took to tin top racing like a duck to water, shame he couldn't stay up the front in R3. Even more of a shame Ant made that mistake in R3 while leading. And Morgan seems to have no luck ATM

MG seemed more competitve surprising considering they were nowhere at this track last season. Seems there's some life in the old dog yet

Once again Knockhill provides some of the best action and all three races did just that and the support races were no different, although a couple of drivers in the Porsche's need a good rollocking (Eastwood and Ellinas)

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by AdrianM

Ok, the sky is blue and water is wet.

On the other hand, if a Honda and Chevy being so incredibly slow in a straight line is as obvious as the sky being blue, it does point to potential BoP issues. And cars running in Noahs two by two formation is a clear sign of it. it's the first sign that the ACO have made an arse of the WEC one, and the same applied to knockhill this weekend. But I'm sure I'll be told it's all wrong and that was natural and it's fine for the heaviest car on hard tyres to set fastest laps because water is blue and sky is wet...

Driving standards I thought were generally OK. Most issues seemed like errors more than anything else. Only serious ones were the Porsche incident and Price hitting and passing Neal under yellow. There was a lot of rough and tumble but very few malicious incidents. Andrew Jordan hitting Neal was just a mistake for example. There was a lot of fantastic late braking moves which were well executed, in the support series too.

[Matt K]

Well I don't quite get this cry about Subarus dominating. Hondas were in front for many many years, winning titles every year but one since 2011. Now maybe Subaru is able to break their dominance. Is there anything wrong with it? It's motorsport, the one who prepares the best car is winning. I didn't see such cries in Aussie Supercars just because DJR Team Penske Fords are hard to beat this year. It's just a sign for others to up their game. That's it.

[thlbtcc]

Really enjoyed all three races yesterday. What a circuit Knockhill is!

Hope all who visited had a great time, really is one of the best to spectate at.

Some forum members - and indeed teams - seem to have a short memory, RWD is the drivetrain to have there due to the uphill hairpin. The variety of different packages being better on different circuits adds interest to a series.

Now on to Rockingham where FWD will be good in qualifying, RWD strong towards the end of the race and therefore interesting battles.

[tbtstt]

The Newsham move on the final turn was my highlight of the meet: what a pass!

Gutted to see Jordan having another bad weekend. I really hoped he would be at the sharp end in that BMW this year.

Not great to see all RWD at the front but, as others have said, Rockingham should be more of a balanced circuit, so hopefully it will be more mixed. It would be great to maintain the shifting Championship lead up to the final round.

[Sodemo]

The fact that Honda has the best chassis I guess means that they are given a reduced power output, which is why they are struggling for straight line speed. Whether people think that is right or fair is open to question. I personally think if you get a load of cars put them all on equal weight, equal the power as much as you can, and then let them race. If the chassis is bad, then force them to improve their chassis.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

The fact that Honda has the best chassis I guess means that they are given a reduced power output, which is why they are struggling for straight line speed. Whether people think that is right or fair is open to question. I personally think if you get a load of cars put them all on equal weight, equal the power as much as you can, and then let them race. If the chassis is bad, then force them to improve their chassis.

That is what leads to a one make series. You might end up getting 32 Levorgs.

[Akrapovic]

You could argue if they were balancing it properly then a strong RWD track should not have a strong RWD car with the most power. Otherwise you end up with a situation of the car performing so well that nothing can beat it even with success ballast.

I'm all for car development and the best car winning. But if you're going to balance cars then do it properly. Noahs ark two by two at the front and fastest laps with full ballast is not balanced in anyone's book.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Well I don't quite get this cry about Subarus dominating. Hondas were in front for many many years, winning titles every year but one since 2011. Now maybe Subaru is able to break their dominance. Is there anything wrong with it? It's motorsport, the one who prepares the best car is winning. I didn't see such cries in Aussie Supercars just because DJR Team Penske Fords are hard to beat this year. It's just a sign for others to up their game. That's it.

Except V8 do not have BOP or artificial nonsense such as weight ballast. Things are never what they seem in BTCC . A more reasonable comparason would be WWF

[S griffin]

TBH, as long as the racing is close and exciting, I'll continue to enjoy the series. Four drivers within 17 (?) points of each other in 3 different manufacturers is hardly one car dominating

Anyone else annoyed by the unnecessary SC in R3, which luckily didn't change anything for Tingram

[BobJones]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

The fact that Honda has the best chassis I guess means that they are given a reduced power output, which is why they are struggling for straight line speed.

Straight line speed at Knockhill is largely a mute point. The pit-straight comes after a hairpin and is uphill. That's simply a RWD advantage.

Watch Matt Neal in Race 1 and Race 2 with no weight on. Arguably the fastest FWD car on track.

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

That is what leads to a one make series. You might end up getting 32 Levorgs.

By that logic, every race will be at Knockhill too.

[BobJones]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Except V8 do not have BOP or artificial nonsense such as weight ballast. Things are never what they seem in BTCC . A more reasonable comparason would be WWF

Get up to speed with your analogies.

World Wild Life Fund?!

It's also no longer V8 Supercars.

We'll see when the V6 Turbos get introduced. FYI - They have always tried to achieve aero parity in the COTF generation, much in the same way the BTCC is aiming for engine parity.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Except V8 do not have BOP or artificial nonsense such as weight ballast. Things are never what they seem in BTCC . A more reasonable comparason would be WWF

wrong. supercars go to huge lengths to balance the performance! they do both aero parity and engine parity!

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Except V8 do not have BOP or artificial nonsense such as weight ballast. Things are never what they seem in BTCC . A more reasonable comparason would be WWF

It's not that extreme though. BTCC doesn't script winners despite bad Bop.

[Matt K]

BTCC is just much more concerned about costs. Supercars is as well, of course, but there are more sponsors, bigger sponsors and bigger teams so there are no words about certain teams having too fast cars.

[GT6]

We always seem to have these disagreements about which car will dominate in future but in general i would say the racing in btcc is always close and the championship always seems to come down to the very last race so lets say the officials are getting something right and we get to enjoy some good racing

[richrad smith]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

The only thing slower than the Honda is Newsham. No power what so ever.

3 top 10 finishes with NO power!! aye ok then