[WEC] Rebellion Racing

[Akrapovic]

Pure speculation from my part -

I don't imagine Rebellion will be running a Ginetta. I think it'll be an Oreca, but the engine prediction is a bit harder. Mecachrome, Nissan, Gibson and AER are all possible.

I also don't see the Nissan engine being the manufacturer involvement in the Ginetta deal, otherwise we could say that the ByKolles has manufacturer involvement. I think the Ginetta sold cars may be for Alpine. They've been allowed, IMO, to run unfairly in LMP2 as Alpine. That was meant to stop when they started producing cars, and then they were given yet another season this year because the road car was slightly delayed - and they could brand a car. Let's be honest, they wouldn't be allowed to do that if they weren't French.

I can't see how it can be justified to allow Alpine to continue sticker engineering LMP2 cars, so it's either nothing or LMP1. So Alpine Ginetta? They're owned by Renault, who are linked to Nissan. Sticking an Alpine badge on that engine is easy enough.

My personal prediction, based on nothing but the thoughts in my own head

Rebellion - Oreca (possibly with R-Two branding) - Nissan/Mecachrome/Gibson/AER
Alpine - Ginetta - Nissan (with Alpine branding. Signatech running ops).

[canaglia]

Simplest solution:
lmp1 enhanced parts oreca 07 powered by gibson 4.5

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Rebellion - Oreca (possibly with R-Two branding) - Nissan/Mecachrome/Gibson/AER
Alpine - Ginetta - Nissan (with Alpine branding. Signatech running ops).

Sounds like the most likely in my opinion too. But we will find out soon!

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by knighty

I think Bart is purposely putting people off the scent in order to keep his powder dry...

That really isn't Bart's style.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

My personal prediction, based on nothing but the thoughts in my own head

Rebellion - Oreca (possibly with R-Two branding) - Nissan/Mecachrome/Gibson/AER
Alpine - Ginetta - Nissan (with Alpine branding. Signatech running ops).

I think the Alpine/Ginetta/Nissan combination sounds very plausible, my only question mark being the choice of Ginetta as constructor, over Oreca, if (as I think most of us believe) Rebellion have indeed bagged Oreca to build their LMP1, and seemingly quite late in the day.

Anyway, that's a discussion for a different thread...

[TF110]

Shouldn't be much longer now before they have their end of the year get together. I hope we get an announcement!

[Mike E]

Midweek Motorsport could be worth a listen tomorrow night.

[knighty]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

That really isn't Bart's style.

I'm sure Graham Goodwin knows the exact details of the deal!...... but is probably bound by a non disclosure agreement........but he can make references to other press releases, as he has done........and dropping hints about the Nissan and Mechachrome engine not being exclusive......he knows!!!!

[Bcarr6]

On Instagram Andre Lotterer is on a plane to Switzerland....


Keep Jani has already posted as being to dinner with Rebellion last Night.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by knighty

I'm sure Graham Goodwin knows the exact details of the deal!...... but is probably bound by a non disclosure agreement........but he can make references to other press releases, as he has done........and dropping hints about the Nissan and Mechachrome engine not being exclusive......he knows!!!!

Of course, that's not in question.

[claude2cv]

Didn't Porsche say they were continuing development of their LMP1 engine ;-)

[Victor_RO]

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/reb...ement-en-lmp1/

Drivers confirmed as reported in the AutoHebdo story. No word on chassis or engine. Two cars. I guess more details likely on MWM later tonight?

[Bcarr6]

DSC- 2 Oreca's


Exclusive to Rebellion, no word on engine supplier

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by claude2cv

Didn't Porsche say they were continuing development of their LMP1 engine ;-)

unlikely to see porsche V4 fit inside a private lmp1. It should be more expensive than the whole car. Happy to be wrong anyway.

[TF110]

Great news! If it's an Oreca I think the engine will be a Gibson like one of the BR Dallara's. It's probably the best choice for the time constraints and the familiarity. The only thing I'm wondering is if they use the Oreca chassis, who is the mystery team with the two Ginettas?

[GT6]

Hopefully that means two more cars in the class

[Damian Baldi]

Originally Posted by TF110

Great news! If it's an Oreca I think the engine will be a Gibson like one of the BR Dallara's. It's probably the best choice for the time constraints and the familiarity. The only thing I'm wondering is if they use the Oreca chassis, who is the mystery team with the two Ginettas?

Yeah, Gibson should be the option, think about logistics, support from the partner etc etc, and then add the short time to feet the engine on the new car, being atmospheric is a lot more simple.

[Aysedasi]

Fantastic driver line up......

[knighty]

All the DSC article confirms is that Rebellion are entering WEC LMP1 with a 2 car effort.......other than that we are still speculation about chassis and engines........but I do admit it would make sense for then to stay with Oreca, for historical reasons, but I think Oreca still have a conflict of interest issue as they support Toyota, hence if I was choosing an LMP1 chassis, Oreca would be my last choice for that reason.......

honestly I think the Gibson 4.5 will be a mistake, I will be quite surprised if it can compete with the turbo motors who will have a much bigger effective capacity once turbo boost is applied......2.4L = 4.8L with 2 bar of boost......3.0L = 6.0L with 2 bar of boost......as a result the turbo motors will have a great deal more torque to accelerate out of corners with. LeMans is basically 5 huge acceleration zones.

[Turbodcc]

The gains from a turbo engine are huge, but surely they would never go back to AER, which would only leave the Mechachrome or Nissan.
AER do seem to have taken a step toward fixing their previous problems with the new technical director and the new website that appeared recently. However, with the Mechachrome engine securing the formula 2 engine contract you would imagine a great deal of development work was done and also checked by the FIA prior to the decision therefore making it a good option?

[knighty]

this is my overall point, to go the NA route and make it work, you need something like the 5.5L Judd V10 to be on par with the turbo motors in terms of a high and wide torque curve, and low revs for sensible BSFC's and subsequent low fuel consumption.......the 4.5L Gibson is just too small for me, it will have low torque and really guzzle the fuel

I would be quite surprised to see Rebellion go back to AER, but never say never, again the AER 2.4 is still too small for a turbo motor in my mind, but for sure a much better motor than it was.......like I said earlier, based on what the Nissan did at LeMans qualy in 2017, its either the Nissan or the Mechachrome......

if it was my choice, I'd go with the Mechachrome, slightly bigger capacity than the Nissan, so it wont need to rev as high.......and a far more tidy hot-V single turbo package that will lend itself well to helping the rear aero package.

[canaglia]

AER engine wasn't low rev (8000rpm) and to me torque release was quite bland for a turbo engine (<600Nm). Being the mecachrome single turbo, I expect similiar figures despite a larger displacement.
The only real dyno is the cosworth-nismo with the rumored >800Nm torque release.

Gibson released 700hp and 590Nm as max power/torque output.
Guess max torque will be achieved at high revs (about 7000-7500rpm) while max power should be close to the redline (guess not over 9000rpm because of reliability issues).

It's a quite balanced NA nv turbo scenario to me.
It's not like old toyota NA engine that barely could release 480Nm...

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by knighty

this is my overall point, to go the NA route and make it work, you need something like the 5.5L Judd V10 to be on par with the turbo motors in terms of a high and wide torque curve, and low revs for sensible BSFC's and subsequent low fuel consumption.......the 4.5L Gibson is just too small for me, it will have low torque and really guzzle the fuel

I would be quite surprised to see Rebellion go back to AER, but never say never, again the AER 2.4 is still too small for a turbo motor in my mind, but for sure a much better motor than it was.......like I said earlier, based on what the Nissan did at LeMans qualy in 2017, its either the Nissan or the Mechachrome......

if it was my choice, I'd go with the Mechachrome, slightly bigger capacity than the Nissan, so it wont need to rev as high.......and a far more tidy hot-V single turbo package that will lend itself well to helping the rear aero package.

The new ACO technical regulations for the LMP1 will be implemented an Equivalence of Technology between turbo compressed and normally aspirated engines (as done in the past between petrol and diesel).
I suppose that then the NA engines will be competitive.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/f...ons-from-2018/

[Speedblood]

Certainly nothing wrong with the Toyota V8 at the time, the rather silly rules of then restricting capacity to 3.4 litres for NA engines for LMP1 didn't help but it certainly did Rebellion well given the circumstances. It gave them their best Le Mans results (4th Overall in '12 and 14' with the Lola and R-One respectively). IIRC they only had 1 engine failure with the Toyota (Bahrain '13 I believe). Plus it sounded great!

I'm sure that if the current engine regs were around between 2011 and 2013 then they might have chosen something different or stuck with the Judd V10 as they used in 2010.

I hold out hope for a Judd/AIM V10 again but think the Gibson is the most likely option.

[knighty]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

The new ACO technical regulations for the LMP1 will be implemented an Equivalence of Technology between turbo compressed and normally aspirated engines (as done in the past between petrol and diesel).
I suppose that then the NA engines will be competitive.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/f...ons-from-2018/

I just dont believe the ACO will get it right, as they havent in previous years......look at what happened to Cadillacs in this years IMSA with their 6 Litre engine low speed torque advantage, by the time the IMSA tech people had worked out how to best limit the Caddys with some poor gearing to limit their corner exit speed, Caddy had already very nearly had the championship sewn up and out of reach.