2017 World Rally Championship

[Alex Langheck]

You'd think M-Sport & Ogier would be really competitive; but, as they're not a factory team, is the budget available to develop the car throughout the year? Surely, most of the budget was spent getting Ogier - even though I'm sure RedBull have put a fair bit in.

[crossfades]

Originally Posted by Alex Langheck

You'd think M-Sport & Ogier would be really competitive; but, as they're not a factory team, is the budget available to develop the car throughout the year? Surely, most of the budget was spent getting Ogier - even though I'm sure RedBull have put a fair bit in.

They aren't manufactures but still a very big operation. They have big hopes themselves so they should be somewhat aware of the need to keep developing the car.

Ogier tested the Toyota also but preferred the Ford, and Hyundai and Citroen had no seats available. So most of the budget going to Ogier seems somewhat unnecessary if it is true, M-sport being the best choice left when there only were two choices.

[RichP]

I thought Ogier was being paid for by VW/ red Bull for this season - thus no money (or very little) from M-Sport

[chunder]

I think Alex you might be missing the point a mite.

VW will be paying Ogier's wage. As he was contracted for next year I would guess and is still in contract with VW, so they have just moved the contract over to allow him to drive for Ford, though probably still paid a basic retainer by VW. I would think Wilson will be paying bonuses on top of that if he wins rallies and the championship. The same as he would have got with VW for the same wins. But VW will be paying his retainer I would guess.

Only his car is Red Bull branded, that would be part of his contract I expect. And he will no doubt get bonuses on top of the VW and Ford stuff for them aswell.

[Alex Langheck]

I'm fully aware of Ogier being a Red Bull driver, and VW still paying his wages. However, I'm just not convinced M-Sport can get the job done over the full season - 2006/7 is when they last won the WRC Manufacturers Title. Even with Ogier, it's going to be a tough task.

M-Sport must be hoping they show competitiveness - go close to either Title; and that convinces Ford to return officially.

[leonidas]

You also wonder about the organisational focus of MSport. At the Autosport show their rallying arm seemed a bit low key compared to all the other stuff they were trying to sell. You wonder if the non-rallying stuff is the bit which makes money...

[crossfades]

Toyota offered Ogier €8,5 million to drive for them.

[Alex Langheck]

I think that figure was made up by a Finnish journalist; his offer was discussed on the Sportscar section, and very few believed Toyota would offer that much, especially as they're careful of splashing the cash after the F1 disaster. And the WEC programme is still the supposed No1 priority.

As for M-Sport, they sell all kinds of cars all over the world; WRCars, R5, plus the single make Fiestas, the Focus RX cars, etc I suspect the Bentley GT3 is a money spinner; they're popping up all over the place.

[crossfades]

Originally Posted by Alex Langheck

I think that figure was made up by a Finnish journalist; his offer was discussed on the Sportscar section, and very few believed Toyota would offer that much, especially as they're careful of splashing the cash after the F1 disaster. And the WEC programme is still the supposed No1 priority.

As for M-Sport, they sell all kinds of cars all over the world; WRCars, R5, plus the single make Fiestas, the Focus RX cars, etc I suspect the Bentley GT3 is a money spinner; they're popping up all over the place.

Oh, okay. I know I didn't read it from any of the bigger sources so I was a bit unsure. They do have money though being the number one manufacture in the world and WRC is not as expensive as WEC. Getting a driver like Ogier would definitely have had an impact for them.

There is also some internal dispute in Toyota between the WRC team in Finland and GmbH in Germany.

So true about M-Sport, for example they completed their 200th R5 the other day. Seeing a car from them in rallying for me is like seeing a Volvo in Sweden, it's impossible to not see one ...

[S griffin]

Just a few days to go. This is exciting, who knows which way it would go?

[NaBUru38]

Which part of Toyota funds the WRC programme? Japan, Europe?

[crossfades]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Which part of Toyota funds the WRC programme? Japan, Europe?

I think Japan but I'm not sure. The president was one of the driving forces to have a WRC team again at least. They have a cooperation with GmbH in Germany also.

[ArnageWRC]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Which part of Toyota funds the WRC programme? Japan, Europe?

Not sure - but during the Le Mans 24 Hours, I think it was Sam Collins who reported that the budget for WEC, & WRC would come from R&D, and not marketing.


I still don't think we've been told why the programme was moved from Cologne, who had been testing for about 18 months, and given to Tommi.

[crossfades]

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

Not sure - but during the Le Mans 24 Hours, I think it was Sam Collins who reported that the budget for WEC, & WRC would come from R&D, and not marketing.


I still don't think we've been told why the programme was moved from Cologne, who had been testing for about 18 months, and given to Tommi.

The Cologne program wasn't official from what I have understood. They built a car according to the old regulations and were hoping for official backing from Toyota.

[ArnageWRC]

Originally Posted by crossfades

The Cologne program wasn't official from what I have understood. They built a car according to the old regulations and were hoping for official backing from Toyota.

Well they had WEC Toyota factory driver Sarrazin testing a Yaris on Tarmac, with Lindholm testing on gravel. It all seemed a bit unneccasary.
Tommi runs a Subaru engined GT-86 4WD in Finland, and suddenly gets the programme.


http://www.autosport.com/news/report...for-wrc-return

[crossfades]

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

Well they had WEC Toyota factory driver Sarrazin testing a Yaris on Tarmac, with Lindholm testing on gravel. It all seemed a bit unneccasary.
Tommi runs a Subaru engined GT-86 4WD in Finland, and suddenly gets the programme.

True, it was a waste. Real shame, would have been nice with another car in the
"old" era.

Tommi is a very good friend with the president at Toyota, who wanted the manufacture to have a WRC team. Some others at Toyota didn't want one as much.

[tbtstt]

Ogier sets fastest time in shakedown. I know that's no real gauge of rally pace, but two consistent shakedown times certainly gives the impression that Ogier has a handle on the car.

[crossfades]

Looks no different from other years eh?

I was surprised that Meeke was so far back. And also Mikkelsen in second with a R5.
The Toyota seems to have some pace, Latvla being 4th.

[tbtstt]

Too early to jump to conclusions I would say. Not sure about Ogier, but no one else was using studded tyres. Looking at the video clips coming out Ogier is the only one who looks like he is really pushing.

Can't wait to see some competitive stage times!

[Alex Langheck]

http://www.autosport.com/premium/fea...rc-last-chance

[1975DCS]

Originally Posted by Alex Langheck

http://www.autosport.com/premium/fea...rc-last-chance

In order to survive there should be a lot more cars and also from more privateers teams! Watching just a small dozen of cars is too little for a world championship. Next to that local and European Rallying should have more cars in my opinion...

[tux]

Cars look better on stage than i thought they would have.

[tbtstt]

Terrible news from Monte Carlo:

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/janua...4--12-12-.html

An awful lot of (contradictory) stories floating round on Facebook and the like, though it seems the chap fell down the bank and had a heart attack.

Looking at the video clip (and I know you shouldn't speak ill of the dead), but that was a stupid place to be spectating from. Really not the sort of story that you want associated with the new season of WRC.

[crossfades]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Terrible news from Monte Carlo:

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/janua...4--12-12-.html

An awful lot of (contradictory) stories floating round on Facebook and the like, though it seems the chap fell down the bank and had a heart attack.

Looking at the video clip (and I know you shouldn't speak ill of the dead), but that was a stupid place to be spectating from. Really not the sort of story that you want associated with the new season of WRC.

So tragic. I read that the spectator passed out and the car didn't roll over him so I thought he was fine at first. Still, so sad and a tragic start to this new era.

His placement was not good like you say. I wonder if FIA will look over this and consider doing something about spectators on the outside of corners.

[leonidas]

It looks like it was in a remote place - given the nature of the countryside around there it is very difficult for organisers to police absolutely every corner on the Monte.

This was a freak accident but I've got to say I do have misgivings about this season. I may not be popular for saying this but I'm not sure designing cars that are predicted to be going through some corners as much as 30%(?) faster than Group Bs was all that sensible. Not every rally has as good spectator controls as the Monte and people in daft places will have even less time to get out of the way.

I just hope I'm worrying about nothing...