Team Scuderia Toro Rosso: Now with HONDA - Page 10

peebee2 · 28 Mar 2018, 21:07 (Ref:3811603)

Maybe but both chassis and drivers are last couple of rows material. Williams is weaker but no one else I think.

**chunterer** · 28 Mar 2018, 21:19 (Ref:3811617)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peebee2

Maybe but both chassis and drivers are last couple of rows material. Williams is weaker but no one else I think.

The engine is weak but the chassis itself is good!!

**BertMk2** · 28 Mar 2018, 21:33 (Ref:3811626)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

The engine is weak but the chassis itself is good!!

Did McLaren give Torro Rosso the book of excuses as well as the engines?

Skam85 · 29 Mar 2018, 02:00 (Ref:3811663)

Is it me or Gasly almost criminally underrated? Hartley I get even though he's not exactly a plodder, but Gasly is genuinely quick.

S griffin · 29 Mar 2018, 09:41 (Ref:3811711)

Gasly hasn't had the chance to show what he can do yet. He's certainly talented enough

BSchneiderFan · 29 Mar 2018, 15:47 (Ref:3811768)

I’m not entirely sure I believe JEV: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...makes-me-laugh

Richard C · 29 Mar 2018, 16:19 (Ref:3811771)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

I’m not entirely sure I believe JEV: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...makes-me-laugh

I am not 100% sure what JEV is trying to say about Hartley. The cynical perspective is that they are giving the guy a chance that they previously said was not as good as him? Basically... why is Hartley in the car and not me?

Then JEV goes on to talk about how he is much better now than he was then. The implication being... people can change and improve as he has. Might not the same logic be applied to Harley given he spent quite a bit of time at the peak of WEC and that he also may be a different person now?

Richard

BSchneiderFan · 29 Mar 2018, 16:26 (Ref:3811773)

It reeks of sour grapes to me, however understandable that may be. But I generally think drivers should stay classy.

**Peter Mallett** · 29 Mar 2018, 16:32 (Ref:3811777)

I have to say that trying to compare F1 with all its faults, to Formula e or whatever it's called is a big leap.

BSchneiderFan · 29 Mar 2018, 18:28 (Ref:3811792)

Yes. The truth is that, for whatever reason, JEV failed in Formula 1. Hartley has been handed a very, very rare lifeline. Whether he can make something of it remains to be seen. But I doubt JEV is really laughing.

S griffin · 30 Mar 2018, 09:55 (Ref:3811889)

I think Hartley is justifying this second chance, as he has done a solid job so far. Shows what more experience can do

peebee2 · 30 Mar 2018, 10:25 (Ref:3811895)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

I think Hartley is justifying this second chance, as he has done a solid job so far. Shows what more experience can do

And attitude. Which Vergne could learn a LOT from.

**Adam43** · 30 Mar 2018, 20:51 (Ref:3812023)

Yes it is sour grapes, but to be fair to Vergne he mentions that he should have had a different approach when in F1 in that article.

F1Guy · 4 Apr 2018, 11:48 (Ref:3812785)

One race per engine?? Honda's dreadful reliability continues in 2018.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...rosso-1021470/

Honda used 3 different PU's during the pre season tests. Whereas Mercedes and Renault only used the one single PU for all of their pre season testing. Honda still have not got their act together. They should be charged with bringing the sport into disrepute!

VIVA GT · 4 Apr 2018, 11:54 (Ref:3812787)

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Guy

One race per engine?? Honda's dreadful reliability continues in 2018.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...rosso-1021470/

Honda used 3 different PU's during the pre season tests. Whereas Mercedes and Renault only used the one single PU for all of their pre season testing. Honda still have not got their act together. They should be charged with bringing the sport into disrepute!

I still believe that Toro Rosso are being used as a sacrificial lamb to develop/prove the Honda PU and to hell with the consequences (grid penalties) so that the unit is good enough to slot into the Red Bull next season.

karting · 4 Apr 2018, 12:35 (Ref:3812796)

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I still believe that Toro Rosso are being used as a sacrificial lamb to develop/prove the Honda PU and to hell with the consequences (grid penalties) so that the unit is good enough to slot into the Red Bull next season.

Completely agree with this. I also believe why two rookies were given the seat

Richard C · 4 Apr 2018, 13:08 (Ref:3812799)

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Guy

One race per engine?? Honda's dreadful reliability continues in 2018.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...rosso-1021470/

Well with just one race under our belts, your sample size is a bit small to make broad conclusion. Ferrari won the race, can we say they have won the constructors championship for the 2018 season and Vettel the drivers championship?

See my post from about two pages back regarding MGU-H from a third party supplier. Until Honda replaces it with a new unit, it is likely to continue to have issues. And then we can only hope Honda’s in-house unit proves more reliable. And who knows if the new one mentioned is a tweak the the existing unit, or the new replacement moved forward. Speculation was it may not show up until mid season. My guess is that this is not the new MGU-H.

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Honda used 3 different PU's during the pre season tests. Whereas Mercedes and Renault only used the one single PU for all of their pre season testing. Honda still have not got their act together.

The quantity of engines used during pre season has been pretty well discussed. Three was always the plan.

They rotated between two to test different configurations. I believe neither failed during testing. They switched back and forth and examined components while out of the car. The third was to test the AUS spec. Last year they were burnt by not enough “in car” testing, so now they do more of what they should have been doing and are criticized for it? Damned if you do and damned if you don’t?

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Guy

They should be charged with bringing the sport into disrepute!

What a ridiculous comment. Maybe we should say those running the sport have brought it into disrepute with ridiculous longevity requirements? Is ANYONE a fan of those other than someone (probably Mercedes and Ferrari) who thinks it can help them maintain a dominant position and to squash competition? Hence no agreement to stop the madness.

Richard

chillibowl · 4 Apr 2018, 15:19 (Ref:3812815)

not probably Merc and Ferrari...i say certainly those two.

rant alert!

off topic random thought, but for the last several years they have resisted any effort to lower prices for the PUs citing development, build, supply costs/not beneficial to tech they want to develop. fair enough i suppose...

but at the same time, they pursue a policy of limiting usage there by reducing the number of units they could potentially sell.

they have made these thing expensive for a reason so why dont they want to sell more of them!!!

relax the usage rules while equalizing the prize money with the assumption that the smaller teams will now have more money to be able to buy more of these over priced units.

not sure if thats a fair quid pro quo or just another form of unfair redistribution/corporate welfare?

but at least they would see development move faster and we would see these engines turned up to 11 at more races.

Akrapovic · 4 Apr 2018, 17:00 (Ref:3812835)

Whilst the sample size of 1 race is too small to draw a complete conclusion, it's not unreasonable to suggest Honda still has issues. They were not fast and they were the only team to lose an engine.

EffectiveSprinkles · 4 Apr 2018, 18:12 (Ref:3812856)

Red Bull is gonna be annoyed at the amount of prize money they will lose this year.

I suspect a Honda pullout at the end of this year, framed as a desire to focus on the next set of regulations.

Richard C · 4 Apr 2018, 19:03 (Ref:3812863)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Whilst the sample size of 1 race is too small to draw a complete conclusion, it's not unreasonable to suggest Honda still has issues. They were not fast and they were the only team to lose an engine.

I think everyone, including Honda, would agree.

Richard

Richard C · 4 Apr 2018, 19:09 (Ref:3812866)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Red Bull is gonna be annoyed at the amount of prize money they will lose this year.

I suspect a Honda pullout at the end of this year, framed as a desire to focus on the next set of regulations.

IMHO... If they plan to be in this after this set of regulations expire, that doesn’t make sense. The reasons are... They are making progress on this new engine concept. Plus pulling out of the sport has previously proven to be a bad decision (Honda has admitted this IIRC). Staying in allows them to have more of a voice on the next regulations. Let’s see how they are around mid season.

Richard

crmalcolm · 4 Apr 2018, 20:56 (Ref:3812893)

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Guy

One race per engine?? Honda's dreadful reliability continues in 2018.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...rosso-1021470/

Honda used 3 different PU's during the pre season tests. Whereas Mercedes and Renault only used the one single PU for all of their pre season testing. Honda still have not got their act together. They should be charged with bringing the sport into disrepute!

April 1943, Barnes-Wallis abandons development of 'upkeep', citing that he has brought his scientific name into disrepute because the outer casing keeps failing?

Or does he continue working on the problem to come up with a solution?

chillibowl · 4 Apr 2018, 22:43 (Ref:3812912)

1943...pretty sure everyone was up to no good then including Honda.

S griffin · 5 Apr 2018, 08:38 (Ref:3812947)

Honda are obviously using this season as another test, this time for a possible top team in the future, i.e. Red Bull. Shame for Gasly and Hartley though

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