US Grand Prix- Austin (USA)

[ujoint]

IMO it looks like Texas may have made a fatal assessment of the income stream projected to result from the f1 2012 event. My opinion (mine only thanks) is based on what I recently read from this source material: http://tinyurl.com/5tgg8up This read gives a pretty good in-depth report on the calculation side of this event.

If someone convinced Austin, Texas that F1 fans are filthy rich. Well guess what? I for one am an F1 fan but, I damn sure am not filthy rich. Multiply and divide that by X #s of attendees. Pols and the tax people don't do things according to the real world unfortunately.

What's really bothersome about all this as usual is the event is less than a year away and now people who control the purse strings are finally looking at the books.
If this thing goes south the s..t is really going to hit the fan. There are already lawsuits filed to halt the spending. Anyhow, hope I haven't repeated myself. Enjoy the new revelations about the goings on down yonder way ya all.

Hey Austin, anybody home?
Quote: "The City Council — despite warnings from F1 organizers that the project could fall apart if not endorsed Thursday — decided instead to postpone a key vote until Wednesday (June 29, 2011)".

BE has worked his magic math here.

[JeremySmith]

There is little doubt in my mind that this race will happen, and it will work..

It is typical of Austin City Council to run in the opposite direction of things that are good for the city..

Let's give Bernie a bit of a rest, Tavo Hellmund has been working on this for over ten years and is no idiot..

[ujoint]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

There is little doubt in my mind that this race will happen, and it will work..

It is typical of Austin City Council to run in the opposite direction of things that are good for the city..

Let's give Bernie a bit of a rest, Tavo Hellmund has been working on this for over ten years and is no idiot..

Then BE and Tavo were stabbing Tony George in the back all along and he didn't know it. And the folks in Austin think this is a good idea. Just sayin.

Can't wait to see the green flag fall.

[Texas]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

There is little doubt in my mind that this race will happen, and it will work..

It is typical of Austin City Council to run in the opposite direction of things that are good for the city..

This is exactly right. and it's why I'm here...

OK, HERE'S THE DEAL:

This is IT. Circuit of the Americas needs every one of you who supports this project to help by showing your support for F1!

There is still one more hurdle to clear. We need to win a vote in the Austin City Council in order and gain its endorsement. It seems like the Austin City Council will vote our way, but they want to know they have popular support, even from around the world. The opposition is trying their best this time to match our efforts, and you never know how much effect a very vocal, relentless, and utterly dishonest minority can have in this town...so even though we had a fantastic results in the last meeting (emails to the Council, online petition signatures, and an overwhelming majority at the Council Chambers), we need to absolutely overwhelm EVERYONE with a MASSIVE show of support by this Wednesday at 10am US Central Time.

We know you folks down under can't make it to the meeting, but you really can help...probably a lot more than you think you can!

What we need:


- Direct emails of support sent to council members...beginning tonight. Don't be shy. Send more than one if you like, & it can be short & sweet. We need quantity. That's what the council looks for. Title your email so that it shows your support.

( Lee.Leffingwell@ci.austin.tx.us; Chris.Riley@ci.austin.tx.us; Mike.Martinez@ci.austin.tx.us; Laura.Morrison@ci.austin.tx.us; Bill.Spelman@ci.austin.tx.us; Sheryl.Cole@ci.austin.tx.us; Kathie.Tovo@ci.austin.tx.us )

- Petition signatures. Every time the petition is signed, an email of support is sent to the council. Sign the petition here: http://www.change.org/petitions/tell...s-on-formula-1 .

- Call your friends, family, coworkers or anyone else who supports F1 and/or Circuit of the Americas and what it will bring to the City. Get them to help in any or all of the above ways!!

Please, take the time to show your support and get others to do so with you. This is your last opportunity to show the Austin City Council that you want this project! Ever feel like you never have a voice in today's crazy politics? Here's your chance to make a meaningful difference on something that really matters!





Thank you all SO MUCH for of your help and support!

Tim Wood

[Spritle]

Send them the link to this thread so they get to hear more than one opinion from the fan base.

[thebear]

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[BobHWS]

Originally Posted by Texas

The opposition is trying their best this time to match our efforts, and you never know how much effect a very vocal, relentless, and utterly dishonest minority can have in this town...

I don't agree with your characterization of those opposed to the F1 project, especially your use of the phrase "utterly dishonest" to describe them. I will grant that some local people who oppose the project may not understand all the complicated issues that are involved and thus they may have made arguments that are not relevant, but I don't see any more dishonesty among those opposed than among those who are in favor.

I'm also not sure that the opposition constitutes a minority of opinion. When I read the comments section of articles about F1 in the Statesman, I'm surprised at how much opposition there is to the project, especially considering that no local public funds will be directly contributed to the project. It would be interesting to see how the people of Austin would vote on the F1 project, if they got a chance to do so.

There are a number of reasons why some people are sincerely and honestly opposed to the F1 project. I think the biggest one is that people don't buy the argument that the $25M/year subsidy from the state is "free money" that will be repaid by the incremental sales and hotel taxes attributable to the race weekend. They understand that the event will generate "extra" tax revenue and "extra" sales for hotels, bars and restaurants, but they have a philosophical objection to giving F1 a $25M/year rebate on the incremental taxes paid to the state. They wonder why other businesses shouldn't get subsidies based on how much "extra" sales and taxes they generate.

Another reason that people are opposed to the project is that they have learned where the $25M/year will go (i.e., right into Bernie's pocket). The recent news about Bernie's 22-year old daughter buying a $100M+ mansion in LA didn't really assure people that Bernie is a worthy recipient of an annual donation from the Texas State Treasury.

However, in the final analysis, I think the council will vote Yes on supporting the F1 project. Now that the promoters have promised to pay the city's share ($4M/year) of the annual F1 payment, there is not that much financial risk for the city. I'm still skeptical about whether F1 will ultimately succeed in Austin (for such reasons as heat, traffic, lack of F1 tradition, high cost of attending an F1 weekend, etc.), but we won't know about that until a few years down the road.

I think the council did the right think to delay the vote so that it could study the contract and consider everyone's objections to the project. Most of those objections are reasonable ones and to characterize those who raised them as an "utterly dishonest minority" is wrong and unfair.

[ujoint]

Will they or will they not? Holding my vote.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by thebear

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
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I tried it as well, with the same result.

[Flyin Ryan]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

There is little doubt in my mind that this race will happen, and it will work..

yes, because the history of American street course/city-subsidized racing events in both F1 and Indycar clearly supports that

And then throw on top of that history of failure outside the odd success like Long Beach (which left the F1 circuit due to the high sanctioning fee making the race's continued success a large risk...in the mid-80s; they still exist today so they made the right choice), this massive sanctioning fee that has to get paid which cannot be covered by commercial rights because Bernie keeps the TV money, and cannot be covered by paid attendance because there won't be enough butts in the seats to cover it even if the race sold out.

Sorry, I've seen this script before in American sports, the real money here is on the real estate development and the circuit is just the ploy to get it done. Once the real estate development is over, c'est la vie. See the Phoenix Coyotes currently as an example. Arena got built in Glendale, Arizona, for them by the city as the city saw sports as a way to enter "the big time" instead of just being some random Phoenix suburb. Mall development right next door for which the arena is the anchor to draw consumers. The Coyotes franchise is losing money hand over fist and will probably leave next year (or fold). The mall development just entered foreclosure. And the city of Glendale is likely going to have to declare municipal bankruptcy because of all the money they have left to pay on the bonds for the arena they built with no anchor tenant. Who gets screwed in all that? All Glendale city residents. And the city in order to keep the now NHL-owned franchise in Glendale has paid the NHL two installments of $25 million annually to own...nothing!

[Purist]

You do realize that this is a permanent road course, correct?

[Flyin Ryan]

Originally Posted by Purist

You do realize that this is a permanent road course, correct?

Fully. But it's still a city financially supported race just like a street race.

And who's using it the other 52 weeks of the year? Aussie V8's are not enough. Indycar and NASCAR are not because they race at Fort Worth and in both series' cases those are successful events with large attendances. Sportscar racing at the moment in the U.S. seems to be approaching comatose. I imagine they could maybe do MotoGP or World Superbike, although MotoGP seems content with Indy and Laguna Seca. They could potentially grasp World Superbike from Miller.

When you look at American racing in that context, building a new road course was not needed.

[Purist]

I thought MotoGP had already entered a 10-year agreement beginning in 2013.

You can always do track days and club meetings, or SCCA Nationals, and those have the added benefit of generally be track rentals, and NOT having sanction fees.

I figure both ALMS and Grand-Am will take a look at it. And I find a battle between Dyson and Cytosport to be no less exciting than one between Aud and Peugeot, with the added benefit that I'm not demoralized by an automatic diesel win.

[Flyin Ryan]

Originally Posted by Purist

I figure both ALMS and Grand-Am will take a look at it. And I find a battle between Dyson and Cytosport to be no less exciting than one between Aud and Peugeot, with the added benefit that I'm not demoralized by an automatic diesel win.

Uh...you need to come over to the sportscar board. Dyson and Cytosport, maybe the only two prototypes on track if that race ever went off.

I thought MotoGP had already entered a 10-year agreement beginning in 2013.

Maybe they have. Is Laguna Seca leaving?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Flyin Ryan

Fully. But it's still a city financially supported race just like a street race.

And who's using it the other 52 weeks of the year? Aussie V8's are not enough. Indycar and NASCAR are not because they race at Fort Worth and in both series' cases those are successful events with large attendances. Sportscar racing at the moment in the U.S. seems to be approaching comatose. I imagine they could maybe do MotoGP or World Superbike, although MotoGP seems content with Indy and Laguna Seca. They could potentially grasp World Superbike from Miller.

When you look at American racing in that context, building a new road course was not needed.

NASCAR could run it, Watkins Glen, NHIS, and Pocono are all closer to each other than Fort Worth and Austin are.

[Texas]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I tried it as well, with the same result.

Thanks guys, for sending those emails!

Kathie Tovo was only sworn in as a Council Member this afternoon, so I'm guessing that's why here email address is inoperative. No big deal though. We weren't going to sway her by any means.

Again, I can't thank you all enough for your help!

[Texas]

Originally Posted by Purist

I thought MotoGP had already entered a 10-year agreement beginning in 2013.

You can always do track days and club meetings, or SCCA Nationals, and those have the added benefit of generally be track rentals, and NOT having sanction fees.

I figure both ALMS and Grand-Am will take a look at it. And I find a battle between Dyson and Cytosport to be no less exciting than one between Aud and Peugeot, with the added benefit that I'm not demoralized by an automatic diesel win.

Yes, F1 & MotoGP have already signed 10 year deals. There have been strong rumors, another just yesterday, that Aussie V8s are coming, and we've also heard noise about DTM. ALMS has also publicly expressed interest, and I believe they are a given.

Personally I see no reason NASCAR couldn't run here, be it Sprint or Nationwide. A race here wouldn't pull fans from TMS. It may even build their fanbase. This isn't exactly NASCAR country the way one might think it is.

IndyCar? Who knows.

[Texas]

Originally Posted by BobHWS

I don't agree with your characterization of those opposed to the F1 project, especially your use of the phrase "utterly dishonest" to describe them. I will grant that some local people who oppose the project may not understand all the complicated issues that are involved and thus they may have made arguments that are not relevant, but I don't see any more dishonesty among those opposed than among those who are in favor.

I'm also not sure that the opposition constitutes a minority of opinion. When I read the comments section of articles about F1 in the Statesman, I'm surprised at how much opposition there is to the project, especially considering that no local public funds will be directly contributed to the project. It would be interesting to see how the people of Austin would vote on the F1 project, if they got a chance to do so.

There are a number of reasons why some people are sincerely and honestly opposed to the F1 project. I think the biggest one is that people don't buy the argument that the $25M/year subsidy from the state is "free money" that will be repaid by the incremental sales and hotel taxes attributable to the race weekend. They understand that the event will generate "extra" tax revenue and "extra" sales for hotels, bars and restaurants, but they have a philosophical objection to giving F1 a $25M/year rebate on the incremental taxes paid to the state. They wonder why other businesses shouldn't get subsidies based on how much "extra" sales and taxes they generate.

Another reason that people are opposed to the project is that they have learned where the $25M/year will go (i.e., right into Bernie's pocket). The recent news about Bernie's 22-year old daughter buying a $100M+ mansion in LA didn't really assure people that Bernie is a worthy recipient of an annual donation from the Texas State Treasury.

However, in the final analysis, I think the council will vote Yes on supporting the F1 project. Now that the promoters have promised to pay the city's share ($4M/year) of the annual F1 payment, there is not that much financial risk for the city. I'm still skeptical about whether F1 will ultimately succeed in Austin (for such reasons as heat, traffic, lack of F1 tradition, high cost of attending an F1 weekend, etc.), but we won't know about that until a few years down the road.

I think the council did the right think to delay the vote so that it could study the contract and consider everyone's objections to the project. Most of those objections are reasonable ones and to characterize those who raised them as an "utterly dishonest minority" is wrong and unfair.

Of course you have your opinion, and that's fine. I can tell you from first hand experience that while not every person opposing the track is a liar, the most active among them has unabashedly lied repetitively about various aspects of F1, motorsport, the contract(s) with the City, the METF, and more. When confronted with hard fact, they'll look you right in your eye and call you Eurotrash and a liar.

They are indeed a MASSIVE minority. Our three petitions were started merely as a response to theirs, which was started first. They had nearly 100 signatures when we began. They took theirs down when they stalled out at about 150 and our combined total was in the thousands. We now have over 5000 combined.

At the last City Council meeting there 26 people signed up in opposition. They were the same folks who oppose every new development project. We call them the CAVE people (Citizens Against Virtually Everything). There were 243 signed up in favor. That's a 9+ to 1 edge. People have sent emails to the Council at over an 8 to 1 ratio of "in favor" to "opposed".

On the far, far left, you have those who are environmentally opposed. On the far, far right you have those vehemently opposed to any form of government involvement, regardless of the fact that the City will not put any funds into the deal. The Local Organizing Committee picked up what would normally be the City's contribution under the rules of the METF.

Of course it was fine to delay for further study. I never suggested otherwise. Still, the people I'm talking about haven't wanted a mere delay. They want this project and everything and everyone associated with it to burn in hell, and they've employed a methodology of "the ends justify the means" to get there.

I've been to every hearing, through every commission and council meeting. If you say the bulk of what these folks have used to argue the point isn't dishonest, you simply have no idea about that which you speak...and you say they're no more dishonest than we are? Please tell us where and when we have lied regarding any portion of this.

[Texas]

Originally Posted by Flyin Ryan

Fully. But it's still a city financially supported race just like a street race.

And who's using it the other 52 weeks of the year? Aussie V8's are not enough. Indycar and NASCAR are not because they race at Fort Worth and in both series' cases those are successful events with large attendances. Sportscar racing at the moment in the U.S. seems to be approaching comatose. I imagine they could maybe do MotoGP or World Superbike, although MotoGP seems content with Indy and Laguna Seca. They could potentially grasp World Superbike from Miller.

When you look at American racing in that context, building a new road course was not needed.

The USGP will not be a City-supported race. The City isn't putting a dime into the METF deal. They get a HUGE benefit with no risk at all, and they can opt out at ANY time.

Who's using it the other 52 weeks? You realize there are only 52 weeks in a year, right? LOL. Anyway, how about the 1, probably 2 auto manufacturers who will be constructing test facilities there? Or the lower level racing championships like SCCA and NASA, and the instruction schools, "driving experiences", the Motorsport Country Club, and car club track days? How about the footraces and bike races, concerts, and music festivals? Williams F1 has already talked openly about putting a KERS research facility here.


See my post above about who's likely going to be racing. For someone so sure of yourself, you sure are behind the curve.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Texas

The USGP will not be a City-supported race. The City isn't putting a dime into the METF deal. They get a HUGE benefit with no risk at all, and they can opt out at ANY time.

Who's using it the other 52 weeks? You realize there are only 52 weeks in a year, right? LOL. Anyway, how about the 1, probably 2 auto manufacturers who will be constructing test facilities there? Or the lower level racing championships like SCCA and NASA, and the instruction schools, "driving experiences", the Motorsport Country Club, and car club track days? How about the footraces and bike races, concerts, and music festivals? Williams F1 has already talked openly about putting a KERS research facility here.


See my post above about who's likely going to be racing. For someone so sure of yourself, you sure are behind the curve.

Call me a Mugwump but you certainly have an intersting perspective.

[ujoint]

Just picked this up from this source:
http://www.statesman.com/blogs/conte...all/index.html @0915pm USA east coast 28 June 2011. Also, a special thanks to my buds at the formula 1 blog.

Environmental Agreement. Not to be confused with Tax support aggreements. An excerpt from the Austin Statesman ( a local news source).

-Provide satellite parking and dedicated lanes for mass transit options
-Build structures to Austin Energy Green Building standards
-Invest in on-site renewable energy
-Embrace aggressive recycling and composting practices
-Invest in local carbon offsets, such as tree plantings and land conservation
-Buy into Austin Energy’s Green Choice program
-Dedicate land for a community garden
-Partner with other organizations, such as Austin Technology Incubator, to support on-site green technology and research and development projects
-Coordinate with local educational institutions such as UT, Texas State , Huston-Tillotson, and Texas A&M to do green racing and transportation research
-Host alternative energy and energy efficient car races, in addition to cycling and foot races

“This project shouldn’t just be about fast cars. The project offers opportunities to bring our local sustainability efforts to a worldwide stage,” said Riley. “Over 500 million people in over one hundred countries watch F1. Austin ’s version of the event should convey our commitment to clean technology research and development, and should inspire people across the planet to think green.”

By the way, in case no one outside the United States didn't know this. Austin, Texas and the local environs probably could be classified as extremely liberal in there approach to environmental issues. Just sayin.

Well, if nothing else should really be a clean facility. Can't wait to see what it actually looks like in the end.

Ya all stay tuned as the final acceptance vote on the "Proceed to Completion Contract" is scheduled for tomorrow June 29, 2011 @ 10:00am central time USA.

Oh yeah, Texas, what where you saying earlier?

Hey, I don't see a new high speed limited access toll road (make more local money) in that environmental package. Quick, someone notify the council. You can't get to this track in an acceptable clean air environment. Oh yeah, I like the community garden. If it was in Mexafornia you could grow marijuana there and make some real money.

America 2011.

[Texas]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Call me a Mugwump but you certainly have an intersting perspective.

Is that good or bad?

re: mugwump, I'll need to know what that is before I decide whether or not to call you one!

[Texas]

Originally Posted by Spritle

Send them the link to this thread so they get to hear more than one opinion from the fan base.

They've heard every angle discussed here and much, much more...ad nauseum.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Texas

Is that good or bad?

re: mugwump, I'll need to know what that is before I decide whether or not to call you one!

A mugwump is the guy who sits on the fence, with his mug on one side and his wump on the oher and regarding the Austin GP, yep you may call me that.

Should have had the GP in Vegas.

[Texas]

Thanks for posting that, uJoint. Beat me to it.

Oh yeah, Texas, what where you saying earlier?

About what?


Also, this just in. Willie Nelson, Lyle Lovett to play at COTA in 2012 (at USGP?). Music series also announced:


http://www.formula1blog.com/2011/06/...sgp-in-austin/

http://assets.circuitoftheamericas.c...e_06.28.11.pdf