Overtaking...

[F1Pete]

Recently I made reference to the Button/Trulli duel in Malaysia being a reminder of Villeneuve/Arnoux duel at Dijon. In reality, obviously the two battles don't compare. What I meant by that statement is that it clearly shows that I am starving for action in F1. Am I the only one? It has been waaay too long since I have seen some real overtaking action amongst the front runners. Yeah, the new rule changes are always trying to enhance racing (ie. if you change an engine, you lose 10 places on the grid). Well, to be honest, I don't think it is a big deal when a top team is passing back markers.

I just want to see more races being decided with a battle on the track rather than in the pits. Remember when Hakkinen passed Schumacher/Zonta at Spa? Well, a big deal was made of that because that kind of thing hadn't happened in a long time and I don't remember anything like that happening since. Am I out to lunch??

I hope Bahrain and China are conducive to overtaking opportunities (and I hope Ferrari slows down a bit).

[Mr V]

Originally posted by F1Pete
Well, a big deal was made of that because that kind of thing hadn't happened in a long time and I don't remember anything like that happening since. Am I out to lunch??

Don't think your "out to lunch" Pete, just forgetful, which is what i was until i re-watched Brazil 2001 and DC made the same move on Michael (either side of a backmarker) in the wet! Imo, a better move than Mika's.

Incidently, i was watching Spa 2000 only yesterday, and imo, the reason Mika was confident of making that move was that he had followed Michael for lap after lap and seen Michael go to that side of the circuit every single lap, trying to cool down his slicks in the dampness on that side of the circuit.

[Kicking-back]

Yes, but it was brave of Mika, given that Michael had nearly had him off the track on the previous lap.


Anyway, if you watch tapes from the 80s and 90s there was no more overtaking than there is now.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Yes, but it was brave of Mika, given that Michael had nearly had him off the track on the previous lap.

Agreed, a brave and instinctual move.

Originally posted by Kicking-back

Anyway, if you watch tapes from the 80s and 90s there was no more overtaking than there is now.

Funnily enough, we always hear about the "good old days" but i have to agree with you. Re-watching old season review tapes, backs up your claim.

[Mr V]

sorry, double post, caught in that "server to busy" mode. Time for bigger batteries?

[climb]

In any case we should distinguish "overtakings" from "action" in general, there can be action without overtakings , remember Spain 81?
No overtakings in the top places troughout the race, but what an exciting one!

[Kicking-back]

Agreed.

[Webslinger]

It is also interesting to see just how bad the coverage was back in the "good old days". The camera work was pretty non-existent compared to what we have on offer today.

[Speed]

2001 had many spectacular overtakings...
Interlagos (JPM on MS)
San Marino (JPM On Trulli)
Spa (JPM on RS)
Silverstone (JPM on MS)

And I remember Canada 2002 when JPM overtook RS/KR at the same move...

[ElScOrChO]

Also the duel between Montoya and Raikkonen at Hockenheim 2002. That was a great battle!

[RWC]

Ther's alot of missunderstanding on this subject!

In the past there was not nessesarily more overtaking-but it was MUCH easier *IF* the following car actually faster than the leading car.The modern aerodynamics are the problem!!!!
Cars never used to follow each other anywhere NEAR so much

[golem]

I thought last year had a few good moments? The one I remember most is Barrichello V Raikkonen, Silverstone. It was a good tussle and Barri just set him up over a few corners, But Raikkonen didn't make it easy either.

[Mr V]

And how can we forget JPM on Michael, around the outside at the Nurburgring last year

[F1Pete]

Originally posted by RWC
Ther's alot of missunderstanding on this subject!

In the past there was not nessesarily more overtaking-but it was MUCH easier *IF* the following car actually faster than the leading car.The modern aerodynamics are the problem!!!!
Cars never used to follow each other anywhere NEAR so much

Exactly! Cars seem to follow each other around the track like a train.
Also, do you see from the responses that people are quoting an overtaking move from years ago (ie. 2001, 2002). I would like to see some moves during every single race, and not just ponder about one move from the previous season or years before. I know, I am asking for a bit much.

[Wrex]

Well, you line the cars on the grid fastest to slowest, the take off and the fast cars open the gap to the slower ones - wow, who could have predicted that.

F1 is so technically advanced now that the cars are consistant with their speed. The reason 2003 was so much better than 2002 was a) Michael was'nt miles ahead in the game, b) the tyres could vary from race to race, and c) the qualifing rules meant som fast drivers started further back than usual.

Finally, in the good old days, drivers were'nt as fit as they are today, their trainers have trainers nowadays. So end of race errors and wearing someone down is also less likely.

Added to this with $100 million dollar budgets, there is too much at stake to leave it all fall into a one drivers (read : humans) hands, from the teams perspective.

How do we fix it?

1. Make changes to the Aero so it is'nt as difficult to trail another car waiting for error.

2. Ban Fuel Stops. A fast car at the start may not be a fast car at the end. Whats more nail biting than watching a driver close down a gap as the sun goes down. Even without a pass thats great stuff.

3. Put them on 1 or 2 sets of tyres for the weekend, more effective than one engine.

4. Keep the 1 lap quals, they are keeping it interesting, but maybe dump the race fuel.

5. Get the bloody cameras off the parade at the front and follow some action thats already happening at the back.

[Jukebox]

want lots of overtaking.....eliminate qual sessions and have only two days of test sessions.

Then line up the grid with the winner and the other finishers from previous race at the backend of the grid right up to the the last placings at the starting front.

[300kph]

Wrex should work at FIA or if there is a way for us expectators of F1 racing to participate in the changing of F1 rules, I am sure we could contribute a lot to the improvements of the present crisis which I personaly don't see any immediate end with the tweaks they are planning to introduce.

Honestly, I too is starving. I am old and watch any race the weekend could offer.....and I can say that F1 today is different from yerterday.

It's true, Aero will not let the slightly faster car behind to stay close at 5 meter distance or closer and wait... You can only gain momentum and pass or out-brake or you will lose everything going out of the curve and the gap re-opens because you simply don't have enough air for your aero to work...Frustrating huh?

I believe modern F1 has restrain us from the entertainment these greatest drivers of the world could have offer.... everybody deserves better with all the money that's circulating around the sport...

Maybe it's better to move backwards...

[GTV27]

good post Wrex - that's certainly a prescription for more entertaining races. Want to send it off to Max.Mosley@fia.com? Surely even he could see sense once in a while?

[DriverT]

Originally posted by RWC
The modern aerodynamics are the problem!!!! Cars never used to follow each other anywhere NEAR so much

Well... what about 1995, 1996, 1997?