Has "sportsmanship" gone from F1?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Sportsmanship is about showing respect, whether it be for a team mate or another competitor. It means that a person will not win at all costs because there is pride in winning fairly. In business I and many others rarely (if at all) give a sucker a break, but in sport, there are no suckers just competitors and if you can't be a sportsman then the next step, I'm afraid, is cheating (see Piquet/Renault).

true true, there is pride in how you win. i certainly would respect someone who wins with class over someone who wins at all costs so in that sense i suppose i do believe that sportsmanship still has a place in pro sport.

havent change my mind entirely mind you but that is a compelling point.

[Peter Mallett]

I think Vettel felt the same after that race. He had a face like a bulldog sucking **** off a thistle.

Only since then has the Red Bull machine swung into action and he is now in the driving seat. I really dread to think how it will end, because I get the impression the Webber is a seriously angry man. Whether he wants to stay at Red Bull is something that, come the hour, will be a long way from his thinking.

[beau1]

I think Vettel's latest statement basically says that the situation is not resolved and won't be until Webber leaves Red Bull at the end of the season.

Sadly, I think we've got another Pironi-Villeneuve scenario here; hopefully it won't end up in the same way that did but it seems obvious to me that Webber is no longer talking to Vettel. I'd even stretch it and say that Webber may not even be talking to Red Bull apart from giving them feedback on the car in order to improve his own position during races.

Vettel was a knob at the start of all this a couple of weeks ago but the whole thing has been allowed to fester over the last couple of years due to the mis-management of Red Bull and Horner.

To answer the question in general: I have never been a great fan of the 'gentlemanly agreements'; I was a Schumacher fan but I always wanted his team-mates to have a go. At the same time, it seemed to be always agreed that Rubens/Massa were No. 2s so they shouldn't have any complaints. The problem is now that most teams apart from Ferrari don't have designated No. 2s. This may let team-mates race but it does give some false expectation. Webber for example has had his chance and Vettel has clearly been the better driver in the last couple of years. Webber has never been particularly helpful towards Seb's championship efforts so I can sort of understand the thoughts running through Seb at the beginning of all this.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I think Vettel felt the same after that race. He had a face like a bulldog sucking **** off a thistle.

Only since then has the Red Bull machine swung into action and he is now in the driving seat. I really dread to think how it will end, because I get the impression the Webber is a seriously angry man. Whether he wants to stay at Red Bull is something that, come the hour, will be a long way from his thinking.

And we can see why he said what he said on the podium.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

So, if I get your point, you don't mind the punting off in touring car racing and other examples of "modern sportsmanship", because that's what it really means in your dictionary.

Sportsmanship is about showing respect, whether it be for a team mate or another competitor. It means that a person will not win at all costs because there is pride in winning fairly. In business I and many others rarely (if at all) give a sucker a break, but in sport, there are no suckers just competitors and if you can't be a sportsman then the next step, I'm afraid, is cheating (see Piquet/Renault).

No that's not what i believe in but what I see or have seen!

[Thaw Daggerslash]

Think Charles Bradley is absolutely spot on with what he writes in Autosport this week:

"I'd much rather see team-mates battling it out on track (Red Bull style) than a procession (Mercedes style). Nico Rosberg's acceptance of a "Multi 10-9" order not only said a lot about his psychological make-up compared to Vettel's, but reminded me of a phrase his old team boss Norbert Haug was fond of: 'Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser.'

And did I miss the memo that the race order is decided at the final pitstops? I thought it was the chequered flag that finished the racing..."

Not often I agree with Damon Hill on something but his column is on the money too.

[fomoco]

the spoilt brat might have WC next to his name, but I dont think is a ppl favourite unlike others from years gone by. May need to do some lessons on how not to come over as a spoilt brat, tantrum chucker, and think the world evovles around him,

One mistake, one bad off and it all could be over. Enjoy it whilst he can ,

Doesnt matter who leaves REDbull or who comes in, whilst he is there , its his team, and thats it.

[beau1]

Originally Posted by fomoco

the spoilt brat might have WC next to his name, but I dont think is a ppl favourite unlike others from years gone by. May need to do some lessons on how not to come over as a spoilt brat, tantrum chucker, and think the world evovles around him,

One mistake, one bad off and it all could be over. Enjoy it whilst he can ,

Doesnt matter who leaves REDbull or who comes in, whilst he is there , its his team, and thats it.

I think he is enjoying it though; Vettel likes winning not coming second.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Thaw Daggerslash

Think Charles Bradley is absolutely spot on with what he writes in Autosport this week:



Not often I agree with Damon Hill on something but his column is on the money too.

Well many people prefer to see teammates racing hard. Does Bradley think that is a hip opinion or something?

But most people can also accept that team orders are a part of the game and some people will implement them, some won't.

Not sure why he considers the last race to portray Rosberg in a negative light. Is following a reasonable order from your employer considered a flaw now? And I wouldn't say Rosberg took it well, in fact he seemed very unhappy about it. So the good loser quote is completely irrelevant.

What a shambles of journalism.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Thaw Daggerslash

Think Charles Bradley is absolutely spot on with what he writes in Autosport this week:
Not often I agree with Damon Hill on something but his column is on the money too.

That may well be, however these drivers are employed by a team, they are *one* part of a team..

Sebastian is not the owner of RedBull he is an employee, nothing more and nothing less..

[Aysedasi]

Perhaps he ought to drive the truck to the next race.....?

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Perhaps he ought to drive the truck to the next race.....?

[garcon]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Perhaps he ought to drive the truck to the next race.....?

Oh Christ. F1 meets Ice Road Truckers...

[Bononi]

That would be awesome !