RBR expect Gap to Mercedes to increase in 2015

[GT6]

Originally Posted by wnut

Here is an off the wall thought, could RBR be starting a fight with Renault because they are unhappy with their engines, obviously, and the want to bring someone else in, Porsche perhaps?

Thoughts?

I think porsche has other priorities at the moment and has not made any noises that they might want to change course

[VIVA GT]

Here's another thought to throw in here: I don't think that RBR are any more 'just a drinks company building racing cars' than Tyrell were 'just a woodworking company building racing cars'.
No-one ever said that Ken Tyrell wasn't a racer.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Here's another thought to throw in here: I don't think that RBR are any more 'just a drinks company building racing cars' than Tyrell were 'just a woodworking company building racing cars'.
No-one ever said that Ken Tyrell wasn't a racer.

If my memory is correct, Ken Tyrell Racing started life in the late 1950s by building/sourcing a number of cars in Formula Junior or F3, one of which was for him to drive. Appreciating that he wasn't such a good driver, compared to the others that drove his cars, he stepped down from driving.

So it is true that he was a racer at heart.

[wnut]

Bit of background to Helmut Marko by Joe Saward, that I don't agree with fully, but interesting nevertheless:

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010...oes-it-matter/

[Paradise City]

McLaren and Red Bull should just pool their resources and make a new engine for themselves called the "Bulllaren".

[mikuni]

I was actually thinking the obvious thing to do here is for Red Bull to pool resources and knowledge to help bring the Honda PU forward.

But then I imagined what would happen in years to come when Red Bull AND Mclaren BOTH have the same unbeatable power unit - it would be a hilariously untenable situation.

[andy666]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

McLaren and Red Bull should just pool their resources and make a new engine for themselves called the "Bulllaren".

What about Mcbull ?

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by andy666

What about Mcbull ?

I thought that was what Mr Horner is speaking at the moment...

[wnut]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I thought that was what Mr Horner is speaking at the moment...

I thought that was the official McLaren language, McBull?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by wnut

I thought that was the official McLaren language, McBull?

It is the official name for what is more commonly known as Ronspeak, and which has now been adopted by many British enterprises and individuals. The BBC, for example, use it often when attempting to explain often irrational decisions or when describing job opportunities.

[bathurst77]

STR soundly beat Red Bull. So is it more than a Renault problem?

[GT6]

red bull made to look second best by their second team, so agreed engine is not the only problem

[Moneyseeker]

Yep would suggest that STR performance today has somewhat undermined Horner's grievance with Renault.

[JacobP]

My guess is that the Renault engine is still the problem. The best Renault customer finished in the sixth place. Perhaps Red Bulls got beaten by Toro Rossos because there is little room for the superior aero or rest of chassis to make the difference.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by JacobP

My guess is that the Renault engine is still the problem. The best Renault customer finished in the sixth place. Perhaps Red Bulls got beaten by Toro Rossos because there is little room for the superior aero or rest of chassis to make the difference.

Yes, the Renault PSU is a problem, but I am sorry, in the context of RBR vs STR, your comments makes no sense as both use the Renault PSU. It is clear that RBR have issues beyond their PSU.

Richard

[gomick]

I thought the STR looked after there brakes & tyres better than RBR... Mercedes & Ferrari are a long way ahead ATM!

[mikuni]

RBR have wound the downforce off to try and get the top speed up, but this had negative effects. It means the cars move around on the highspeed corners, meaning degradation is high.

I think even the brake problems may be put down to the engine ironically, as RBR may have been trying to streamline the car, running small brake cooling ducts, resulting in the overheating we saw during the race.

But I just loved this last race weekend. Seeing Ferrari right up there with Mercedes was fantastic, and it just puts it into perspective exactly where Renault and Red Bull are at the moment. Hell, the McLaren looked like it might have been able to give the RBR's a go through the middle section, had it been able to catch them.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Dietrich Mateschitz has again threatened to quit F1 unless he gets a competative engine.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118424

[old man]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Dietrich Mateschitz has again threatened to quit F1 unless he gets a competative engine.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118424

When I read this I was tempted to start another thread about the F1 bubble being about be burst by Mateschitz but then I though; Naaah it will never happen, he has to be bluffing. Just sour grapes because he is not winning any more but then, he is a major self made man, will have strong opinions and may not be the life long Motor Racing fan but just in it for the promotion it gives his brand. If he is hard nosed then he could just pull the plug, then what?

I feel that at the moment there are many other sports that will watch this and see an opportunity, imagine the queue forming at his office door for the chance to pitch for the money for their events

We can all worry that the sky is falling and should it happen the lawyers will have a field day with broken contracts. Speaking personally I will always want to watch some racing and enjoy whatever it is if I am fit enough but the number of people who earn a living in F1 is huge and for them it is a major worry

Bernie has been selling the dream with great success all these years, is Mateschitz walking around with an alarm clock?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by old man

When I read this I was tempted to start another thread about the F1 bubble being about be burst by Mateschitz but then I though; Naaah it will never happen, he has to be bluffing. Just sour grapes because he is not winning any more but then, he is a major self made man, will have strong opinions and may not be the life long Motor Racing fan but just in it for the promotion it gives his brand. If he is hard nosed then he could just pull the plug, then what?

I feel that at the moment there are many other sports that will watch this and see an opportunity, imagine the queue forming at his office door for the chance to pitch for the money for their events

We can all worry that the sky is falling and should it happen the lawyers will have a field day with broken contracts. Speaking personally I will always want to watch some racing and enjoy whatever it is if I am fit enough but the number of people who earn a living in F1 is huge and for them it is a major worry

Bernie has been selling the dream with great success all these years, is Mateschitz walking around with an alarm clock?

Does Mateschitz need F1 to promote his brand? Go to any bar on a Friday or Saturday night and see how many Jäger Bombs get drunk, not mention all the other events, sporting and other, which Red Bull support/sponsor.

[P38 in workshop]

He can probably afford any compensation due to breaking contracts and if he really wants to go,he probably will.The interesting discussion is really about whether he and his brand would be missed.A quick reference to the list of constructors who have gone should counter the notion that any team is irreplaceable.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by old man

When I read this I was tempted to start another thread about the F1 bubble being about be burst by Mateschitz but then I though; Naaah it will never happen, he has to be bluffing. Just sour grapes because he is not winning any more but then, he is a major self made man, will have strong opinions and may not be the life long Motor Racing fan but just in it for the promotion it gives his brand. If he is hard nosed then he could just pull the plug, then what?

I feel that at the moment there are many other sports that will watch this and see an opportunity, imagine the queue forming at his office door for the chance to pitch for the money for their events

We can all worry that the sky is falling and should it happen the lawyers will have a field day with broken contracts. Speaking personally I will always want to watch some racing and enjoy whatever it is if I am fit enough but the number of people who earn a living in F1 is huge and for them it is a major worry

Bernie has been selling the dream with great success all these years, is Mateschitz walking around with an alarm clock?

What I think Mateschitz is railing against is Renault's and therefore RBR's inability to become competitive, and I for one agree with him it is pointless having the results for the season determined by a PU configuration decision taken in March 2013!

Fixed development is just plain stupidity, the PU development rules have to change!


P.S. In fairness to Mateschitz, he persisted for three years trying to become competitive, and when they were dominant because of the superior aerodynamics, the rest of the field could change any of their aero to be competitive.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Originally Posted by wnut

What I think Mateschitz is railing against is Renault's and therefore RBR's inability to become competitive, and I for one agree with him it is pointless having the results for the season determined by a PU configuration decision taken in March 2013!

Fixed development is just plain stupidity, the PU development rules have to change!


P.S. In fairness to Mateschitz, he persisted for three years trying to become competitive, and when they were dominant because of the superior aerodynamics, the rest of the field could change any of their aero to be competitive.

Yeh, i'm kind of with you on this one. A lot of people forget these parts.

I know, it's definitely *****ing and complaining, but it's pretty difficult to justify spending so much money on something that's basically predetermined.

Selby

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

Yeh, i'm kind of with you on this one. A lot of people forget these parts.

I know, it's definitely *****ing and complaining, but it's pretty difficult to justify spending so much money on something that's basically predetermined.

Selby

After the woes of China... Will Mr Red Bull crank up the noise about Renault's lack of performance/reliability?

[steve nielsen]

unbelievable, the Renault engines are neither fast or reliable.

the RBR and TR drivers have problems overtaking a Ferrari of Mercedes engine even WITH DRS.