[LM24 Race] 2016 24 Hours of Le Mans

[TzeiTzei]

Feel gutted for not having been able to watch this. I did have a look at the live timing every now and then and also read this forum a bit. Got to watch the last hour and what happened to Toyota is something that just doesn't happen. How could it fail there and then? Unbelievable.

Very encouraging performance from Toyota. Porsche stayed in the hunt and were there to pick up the lead when it was offered to them. Something that can not be said from Audi.

LMP2 looked quite poor on sunday. Too many problems for some really competitive teams.

GTE Pro... well that didn't end too well. A great team effort from Ford. It must be said. Disappointed that the other Ferraris weren't there to challenge them. Corvette no doubt was the biggest disappointment. BoP could and should have been better, but it is what it is.

[Akrapovic]

Toyota did complete the final lap. It did it in just under 12 minutes but the rule is 6 minutes. Whilst second place will still feel like a DNF, that's double points for WEC that the 5 car just lost.

[Mr1ntu05]

Question: shortly before the Toyota #5 broke down, the #2 Porsche had to pit for a tire puncture. If they didn't had to do this and if the #5 would not have broken down, would the #2 still have had a change to win?
I can't find the time the #2 lost by the puncture repair and can't recall the situation just before it.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Mr1ntu05

Question: shortly before the Toyota #5 broke down, the #2 Porsche had to pit for a tire puncture. If they didn't had to do this and if the #5 would not have broken down, would the #2 still have had a change to win?
I can't find the time the #2 lost by the puncture repair and can't recall the situation just before it.

Yes but it was a long shot. Gap was around 30 seconds. So you'd need an off or traffic issue for the Toyota. The Porsche did need to get a splash of fuel, so the tyre change was not that big a loss.

[Ospi]

Incredible experience and such a dramatic finish. First box ticked, to finish the race, next year for a podium!

[tbtstt]

Absolutely heartbreaking end to the race for Toyota. Couldn't believe what happened (and when). Audi didn't seem in the race from the outset and I was rooting for Toyota to hold off Porsche until the end. It was a race finish I won't forget, that's for sure!

Outside the racing I had a few moans this year: camping certainly wasn't awful, but not quite as good as it has been in the past. In the previous years I've camped its been in Maison Blanche, but there was no room there this year due to the paddock expansion into the area, so we ended up in Bleu Sud which was a little disappointing as we were no longer beside the track. The pitch was hard work as well as it was more concrete than grass.

I had a quick walk through Maison Blanche on Saturday afternoon. Real shame that they have now fenced off the corner opposite Karting, as that was a great spot to view from. I also had no idea that the Porsche Curves were now a private campsite as well, very disappointing to be turned away from there.

Still, despite those gripes, I still had an excellent weekend!

[Velociraptor]

Originally Posted by Salamus

Basically what GT3 initially tried to be and what GT4 is trying to be. But after 15 years of watching GT1/GT2/GTE, would anyone be okay with watching GT cars that aren't absolute monsters?

I'd be more interested in GT cars that are far closer to their road version than these homologation specials, because it would be a bit like in the 50s/60s, when you could buy a road car and race it. So yes, something like GT4 instead of GTEam class, and GTEPro I would either discontinue since it's a BoP mess anyway or maybe make it faster to compete with LMP2.

[GT6]

Had a great time at the race and was completely gutted by those final minutes, never felt so sorry for a team in my life

[fergus_r]

Still can't really believe what happened!

Can't imagine what the drivers woke up to this morning.

[Bob Baldwin]

YES I get the hype FORD vs FERRARI . 2 fords 1 ferrari on podium . Other than the DNF's as listed , WHAT were the demise of the 2 Fords , 2 Ferrari's that ended up several laps in arrears ?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Bob Baldwin

WHAT were the demise of the 2 Fords , 2 Ferrari's that ended up several laps in arrears ?

Huh? The third Ford was barely a lap off the class winner and in 4th place in class.

#67 did have serious issues though, two visits to the garage to fix gear selection issues and then Marino dropped the car in the gravel at Mulsanne in the early evening. It finished the race but 34 laps off the class win. As for the Ferraris, #71 had a wheel "explode" at the Esses and #51 had niggling engine-related problems that eventually put it out.

[bentley speed 8]

The #67 was in the garage for quite a while during that initial SC period
In addition to that, it was also tapped into a spin by the Krohn car in the night.
It kinda acted like the "bad luck magnet" for the team.

[airbusA346]

Originally Posted by TheDude

What happened to Manthey and AF Corse?
both 4 cars early retirements

One Porsche was engine failure and the other was suspension I think.

Originally Posted by roderick

I hear some people saying that you need to go around another cool down lap as well?

They have to cross the line (chequered flag) and then do a lap, go across the line again and go into parc ferme (at pit exit) or go down pit lane the wrong way if they are the overall winner.

[chernaudi]

I don't know about the cool down lap, but they weren't classified because their final lap took more than 6 minutes and the race director didn't waive that under force majeure.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Well ... we all know we watched a staged Ferrari-Ford race in GTE-pro this year. Not much else to say about that.


Funniest part? The only people who know the history and care enough to care, are the people most offended by the fakery. On the whole, and massive publicity failure for Ford, FIA, and ACO.

Hey Mae....

You best not be talkin' about me. I don't see nobody behind me...you must be talkin about me.!!!

No truer words spoken.


You know I've been losin' my passion...no....lost... And that's sad.

I'm glad I saw the real thing....

(edit: 'forgot, as usual, see my sig.vvv)

[Deleted]

Thoughts

Freitas is now clone of Charlie Whitening. I almost wanted a vomit during the first hour and would've shut it off if this wasn't Le Mans. Utter nanny nonsense with almost dry track at the end when they finally let them loose. And that wasn't even the end of it, other bizarre decisions during the race (incl the message to Porsche to let Toyota pass when the four cars were in pack during morning, yeah Peugeot would have laughed that). And the ACO officials altogether during the week, from inconsistent car/engine switch penalties/non-penalties to inconsistent in-race penalties/non-penalties to what Jeremy Shaw also moaned on Eurosport, ie not allowing driver to substitute for another even if he did 20 laps in the Test Day. What's the god damn point of reserve drivers if they aren't allowed in anyway? And don't get started about "not doing night laps", waivers have been given million times before, and also it's not like you as reserve are allowed to do those during the race week anyway (and Test Day doesn't have em)

Anyway. The race itself. Was good overall, not classic (apart from the 2011 esq front fight) and not anywhere near of the best races this decade, but good still. I would say on par with 2015. School grade of 8/10.

LMP1
What can I say of the finish that hasn't already been discussed million times before? Amazing battle between the two brought up to bizarre end. Really gutted for Toyota, they deserved it, but Porsche deserved even more as to win you need to finish. This finish will of course will be forever remembered, moreover than the otherwise great fight all the way through the race. Elsewhere Audi was shambles (pretty much what we expected from all of the factories though but only they fully applied to that) and the privateers even more so. Rebellion must start renting tracks and doing proper 24-30 hour tests next year me thinks, the last two Le Mans have been bit embarrassing. CLM... well

LMP2
Every year we preview it to be the most fiercest dogfights, but every year it also tends to go bit less excitingly than we might have predicted? I mean it was still pretty solid overall, and just as Oreca-show as I thought, but large gaps again and at places quite bit of low level standards. Especially very unfortunate to see Pegasus behaving like DKR few years ago. I'm also not overly fond of the "Alpine" Oreca winning ahead of the others, namely because of the fakebadge now going down to history books.

LMGTE-PRO
Whatever, I don't even care anymore of the mess this has become, but I have to say, Ford PR department had excellent job in getting even more TV shots than the P1 factories.

LMGTE-AM
Glad there was very minimal coverage on this, apart from when they got stuck in gravel or something. However Townsend Bell finally got break in luck and achieved something (even if in this half meaningless sub category), especially after the frustration at Indy, so that was nice though.

G56
I found the surprisingly sympathetic to follow, seeing the team at the garage during the final hour almost brought tear to my eye as well. You deserved the finish Frédéric!

Road to Le Mans / LMP3
Solid support, bring back next year. I hope Ginetta gets few new customers with the (pre-mistakes) showing.

Brad Pitt's face at the end when Toyota crumbled was pretty hilarious. Also even better was the note on Leena Gade's door regarding him, absolute comedy gold

On Eurosport comms front, as usual ranging from good to embarrassing (though I have to say at least the final laps went properly, unlike with RLM), the best bits were really between Faulkner and Hancock. Shaw was pretty entertainingly frustrated at times and Haven always sounds delightfully drunk-tired in his night shift, hehe. The worst member this year has to be mr Cole, even worse than Kryptonite Kirby (if possible), banged head to wall so often. Please retire Marc.

[chernaudi]

I'm guessing that you didn't see the puddles near curbs and such, though that's a fault of the ACO for not working on track drainage.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by jimclark

You know I've been losin' my passion...no....lost... And that's sad.

I'm glad I saw the real thing....

(edit: 'forgot, as usual, see my sig.vvv)

I am starting to feel that way too. Don't get me wrong, the P1 ending was extraordinary. But.

The GT thing. How can one not feel like there was a marketing program involved in scripting the results. I hate that!!! I hate it! It is going to backfire big time I feel, on everyone. Big money programs, but if there is script writing involved money will walk. People will see wizards behind the curtain. Golf sponsorship has far less political aspects, and more ROI.

The Garage 56 story was amazingly compelling. I knew little of it, but have done some reading, and dang it, talk about a story.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I'm guessing that you didn't see the puddles near curbs and such, though that's a fault of the ACO for not working on track drainage.

It's the responsibility of the drivers to use their brains and not use the kerbs and runoffs when they are obviously going to be soaked (I'm looking at you DC Racing in the warm-up). Alternate your racing line. At the point when the said drainage-fixing was happening there was dry line coming anyway when they had waited million years for everything to dry out. The first hour was a farce of epic proportions, calling the SC to start the race in the first place.

The another issue is listening to drivers opinion (again like in F1). They are gonna be biased, screw them. We heard true opinions from some though, wondering why on Earth they were circulating there...

I used to love wet weather races. Now I absolute hate them and never hope a single drop of rain during race week because the (major series) organizers have become such pussies and always coward it out. In increasing fashion. There's no point in having monsoon tires either when they are just gonna F1-SC it anyway. Uber protective cars, uber protective circuits, uber protective officialiting. God.

In today's standards, Le Mans 2001 and 1995 would have been immediately red flagged and events moved to September if Freitas and his boy scouts had been controlling them

Originally Posted by skycafe

The GT thing. How can one not feel like there was a marketing program involved in scripting the results. I hate that!!! I hate it! It is going to backfire big time I feel, on everyone. Big money programs, but if there is script writing involved money will walk. People will see wizards behind the curtain. Golf sponsorship has far less political aspects, and more ROI.

Todays GTE is utter WWE horsecrap, but as soon as you just start ignoring them and see them as moving traffic obstacles between prototypes, it becomes much more enjoyable to watch, trust me

[PascaLM]

Originally Posted by awegrzyn

"I have no power" - traumatized for life.

oh noooo, no, no, not serious.

The engine of the Toyota didn't break. So, I only hope that they didn't decide to change the engine map or something several minutes before the checkered flag.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Todays GTE is utter WWE horsecrap, but as soon as you just start ignoring them and see them as moving traffic obstacles between prototypes, it becomes much more enjoyable to watch, trust me

Is this one of those drinking games?

[chernaudi]

Well, one, blame the FIA and the FIA emigrants who now run much of the ACO.

And second, and probably bigger, blame the WEC's reliance on gentleman drivers to comprise driving squads on half or more or the field.

Would you want to be on a wet and puddle ridden track with some of the pro-am drivers in the WEC, or IMSA, for that matter?

[joeb]

Good article on the political situation by Rick Dole:

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/po...car-explosion/

The FIA and ACO put themselves in a tough position

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Well, one, blame the FIA and the FIA emigrants who now run much of the ACO.

And second, and probably bigger, blame the WEC's reliance on gentleman drivers to comprise driving squads on half or more or the field.

Would you want to be on a wet and puddle ridden track with some of the pro-am drivers in the WEC, or IMSA, for that matter?

My posting history tells you that I have addressed those topics quite a few time in the past

It's probably worse in IMSA-land as they have circuits that may actually be hazardous (in positive way) in their old school structuring, usually higher traffic density, and of course LMPCs wrecking into everything that moves. At least when they have stopped PLM in the past it's been sort-of-understandable. Not that I really want to defend IMSA/NASCAR too much...

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by joeb

Good article on the political situation by Rick Dole:

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/po...car-explosion/

The FIA and ACO put themselves in a tough position

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk

Fine article, and sure the officiating + race control was abysmally horrendous all week, however I disagree with it this:

First, the ACO made a post-race decision to deem the stricken No. 5 Toyota “unclassified” in the final results—because it “completed the final lap too slowly”? This decision is an insult to Toyota. It is an insult to drivers Nakajima, Sebastien Buemi, and Anthony Davidson who drove like champions. And it is also an insult to the racing fans at Le Mans and watching on television around the world, who saw anything but an unclassified car. The drivers of the No. 8 Audi were told to stand on the third step of the podium, despite having completed 11 less laps than the Toyota. The drivers’ body language told the crowd they did not want to be there and I suspect the trophies they were given will be sent to Toyota where they rightly belong

The rules say otherwise, if they had allowed the 2nd place for the Toyota it would have been another special waiver. Is that what we want, again It's not an insult, as for once, it's actually what's written in the stone, and has prevented some teams in the past from crawling around the track with their dead cars in hope of getting finish. Sure, Toyota "deserved it", of course they did, but it's not up to interpreting... unlike many of these other nonsense decisions and non decisions...