Converting centre-lock hubs to studs

[Tim Wilkinson]

I've got no experience of cars with centre-lock wheels, so apologies if this is a question with a very obvious answer....

Is it possible to convert a car (FWD, saloon) that has been running centre-lock wheels to accept a conventional wheel that affixes by studs / bolts, without changing the front / rear leg assembly?

Could a conventional hub be adapted to fit the centre-lock upright? Has anyone had something like this fabricated before?

Cheers for any help or advice, even if it's to say it can't be done.

[Tim Falce]

Just change the hub for one with studs or bolts. What car is it.

[Tim Wilkinson]

Early BTCC car. Would it really be as easy as swapping the hubs over like that? I've never looked closely at a centre-lock hub before, so I've no idea how integral to the upright they would be.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by teej

Early BTCC car. Would it really be as easy as swapping the hubs over like that? I've never looked closely at a centre-lock hub before, so I've no idea how integral to the upright they would be.

What make of car?????? If it is an ex race car then you may have the problem that it could have heavier stub axles and different brakes to standard so things may not fit without more modification. Nothing is easy on a car, doubly so on a race car.

[Peter Mallett]

Why do you want to change them?

[Tim Wilkinson]

Cavalier. Currently a rolling shell, should be easy enough to find an engine and 'box to fit, but we'd be down-sizing wheels and brakes to meet a certain set of regs - centre-lock wheels are also not allowed. I'm fairly confident about the engine, 'box and being able to mount the smaller brakes, but losing the centre-locks without changing the whole suspension set-up is proving a puzzler. Unless we lose the BTCC front legs and use Vauxhall road parts converted to take the BTCC damper units?

It's really just an idea and I'm trying to see how feasible parts of it are.

[Notso Swift]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Why do you want to change them?

They are heavier, for a start, they are not as strong, they have a lot more problems with cross threading, parts are more expensive and wear faster, less likely to locate the wheel as well...
But they are really quick to get on an off.

[terence]

Originally Posted by teej

Cavalier. Currently a rolling shell, should be easy enough to find an engine and 'box to fit, but we'd be down-sizing wheels and brakes to meet a certain set of regs - centre-lock wheels are also not allowed. I'm fairly confident about the engine, 'box and being able to mount the smaller brakes, but losing the centre-locks without changing the whole suspension set-up is proving a puzzler. Unless we lose the BTCC front legs and use Vauxhall road parts converted to take the BTCC damper units?

It's really just an idea and I'm trying to see how feasible parts of it are.

Teej, what year is the car,I was with Mallocks 94/95, if its one of those cars ,you got problems!Is it one of the cars with a large "transmsion" tunnle? - that was for the reversed head configuration,so a standard engine??

[Tim Wilkinson]

Hi Terence - you have PM.

It's a '93 car. I think they were standard arrangement, or is that not correct?

[DAE]

The '93 RML car was the first to have the reversed head, the '92 modified cooke car had a standard head.
Back to the wheel fixing, if I remember correct the '93 RML car had the drive pegs in the wheels. (We actually drew up both pegs in the wheels and in the axles, but I cant remember which one we made.) Make yourself some threaded studs out of steel en16T which fit in the existing axles, and get some new wheels which fit the location on the axle and the studs.

[terence]

93RML car? The 93 was built by Cooks, it was only ran by RML.

[Tim Wilkinson]

After seeing some photos, I'm inclined to think this is a '92 Ecurie Ecosse car - so one of the '91 works Vauxhall cars (built by DCRS).

DAE's suggestion seems promising. I think this will end up being a reshell project, if needed at some time soon, rather than something for this winter.

[DAE]

sorry to disagree terence but '92 was the modified cook car as I was working during the day at tickfords converting a car for ford of austrailia, then driving up to RML at the farm yard and working on the design of the modifications to
the cook car at night.
Then in '93 I was working at RML fulltime until july on the new carvalier and the nissan for south africa. I remember it too well as I was doing 80 hour weeks excluding race weekends...
'94 was when graham humpries was involved with the design and cooks had lost the vauxhall deal to RML.

Back on topic, if you have the cook car, (the gearshift was mounted on the floor with the fuel tank under the boot skin in an alloy honeycomb box and had bilstein struts and dampers, the '93 car was on dynamics).
I would reshell it as we had problems with the shell cracking next to the rear suspension pickup points on the cage (the car had been acid dipped with the cage in it).
Again on the '92 car we always had problems with the front wheel bearings as basically they were too small for the loads being applied. We got hold of some trick grease which helped.
Have fun

[terence]

If I am wrong then I apologise but Evan Stone always told me that the car they were still running [94] was indeed a Cook car ,80hrs,?those were the days!!

[DAE]

The cook car arrived at the start of '92. Jeff Kingston drew up new suspension before the start of the season and left after a few races. I joined and drew up a new fuel system (to lower cog) and a few other bits and pieces. The '92 car was used to try out and develop ideas for '93.
For '93 a cavalier was chosen after torsion testing a cav and a belmont.
The Xtrac sequencial gearbox was developed with RML, we had a wooden gearbox case as a mock up. Swindon produced the reversed head to get good airflow into the intakes and a good exhaust run. We started to design and build the racecars in january and made the first race in march with only one car. Working from 8 to 8 were the normal hours, try explaining that to the girlfriend.
Evan Stone wasn't around in those years, in fact I went round his house one night to teach him how to drive autocad. He then went and got a job as a cad jockey at RML.

[terence]

Interesting, thanks for that Dae.When I joined in 94 Evan was a W/S-Staff manager.

[andypipe]

Originally Posted by teej

Cavalier. Currently a rolling shell, should be easy enough to find an engine and 'box to fit, but we'd be down-sizing wheels and brakes to meet a certain set of regs - centre-lock wheels are also not allowed. I'm fairly confident about the engine, 'box and being able to mount the smaller brakes, but losing the centre-locks without changing the whole suspension set-up is proving a puzzler. Unless we lose the BTCC front legs and use Vauxhall road parts converted to take the BTCC damper units?

It's really just an idea and I'm trying to see how feasible parts of it are.

Have you a list of previous owners, as i know a bloke who had a cavalier tc and converted to mod prod spec ie. stud fixing instead of centre lock

[Tim Wilkinson]

Sorry Andy, I don't know who owned it before the current owner, who bought it as spares for his car, but it's built by a different company and bits aren't interchangeable.

Thanks again to DAE and Terry, who's help has been pretty invaluable in figuring out what would work and what wouldn't. It seems there's two ways of getting the car running - use the bare shell as the only touring car part and use everything else from the astra (or other "standard" vauxhall parts), or rebuild it to it's last running spec ie sequential box, dampers reconditioned etc. Neither is practical right now, so i'll be saving the thought of it as a rainy-day project for when I get sideways in that damn paddock hill gravel trap and need a reshell.

Andy - how did he do it?

[andypipe]

From what i can rember, he used vauxhall carlton components