[Driver] 2018 F1 silly season.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

But he's been talking to Frank and Claire. So maybe it's not all over for Palmer.

I thought for a while he might go there. Or McLaren if Alonso goes. Computer Associates, Mobil et al.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by peebee2

I thought for a while he might go there. Or McLaren if Alonso goes. Computer Associates, Mobil et al.

Palmer McLaren?
Wouldn't fit the name driver thing they've always had though.... But maybe that went out with Ron's departure.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

But he's been talking to Frank and Claire. So maybe it's not all over for Palmer.

Are there any media reports of the conversation(s)?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Are there any media reports of the conversation(s)?

No. So clearly it's lies then according to some! Even though it's known in the team.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Are there any media reports of the conversation(s)?

Story Here From Mr Saward

Originally Posted by The Article

So will Felipe Massa stay? Possibly, but there is another driver with immediate F1 experience who will be available as a result of all of these moves: Jolyon Palmer. He’s British, which Williams always likes. He is clearly a decent driver but has had rotten luck with Renault. He is the son of a former Williams test driver (so he knows the right people) and there is some sponsorship that might follow him, which Williams would appreciate. All in all, he’s not a bad bet for Williams in the circumstances. Felipe Massa is 36 and money from Brazil has dried up.

A financially-driven choice for Williams really, ending up with 2 midfielders...

[Formulahistory]

Palmer to Williams? Why? He was the worst driver in 2017.
Wehrlein or Pérez are more likely I think.

[knighty]

Palmer to Williams......well it could only be to satisfy sponsors age, because he aint got any speed.....on the plus side it would be someone for Stroll to easily beat......are Williams really that stupid, I dont think so......

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by Formulahistory

Palmer to Williams? Why? He was the worst driver in 2017.
Wehrlein or Pérez are more likely I think.

If Williams didn't already have the Merc contracted DiResta as third driver then I could see Wehrlein going there as third, but as it is no.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Story Here From Mr Saward

Thanks for that.
Not saying it won't happen, but it does come across more as speculation at the moment as opposed to confirmation.

Do we know when the talks between Palmer and Williams took place?

[S griffin]

Palmer is less likely to be treated as a number 2 like he has been at Renault. And he's not the worst driver on the grid, he's certainly better than Ericsson

[Skam85]

If Williams are going to chose a proven non-performer in Palmer - they may as well take the gamble on a once-proven performer but currently risky Kubica.

Worst case scenario they're still going to be getting 0 points vs whatever Stroll scores.

[F1Guy]

Kubica would beat Palmer any day of the week!

I really hope Kubica gets a seat next year. Either at Sauber or Williams. But the story doesn't look like it's going to have the ending that many are hoping for. Such a sad ending to a story that could have made the 2018 season that much more interesting.

On the current engine situation, it must be said.. kudos to Renault for agreeing to supply McLaren (apparently). Renault could well get beaten by Red Bull and McLaren next year, but still chose to supply engines to McLaren (apparently) knowing this. Bravo Renault. Bravo.

[GTRMagic]

This Article suggests that in the musical chairs game on right now for engines, sponsorship & drivers, that Mr Sainz may be on loan for season 2018, and may be available for recall to Red Bull proper for 2019 should a seat open up.

It is VERY complicated...

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

This Article suggests that in the musical chairs game on right now for engines, sponsorship & drivers, that Mr Sainz may be on loan for season 2018, and may be available for recall to Red Bull proper for 2019 should a seat open up.

It is VERY complicated...

I think we've got a few years of turmoil to go yet. Big team contracts with engine suppliers are increasingly linked to drivers careers, and the engine situation has a few years to go before the 2021 picture is known.

Throw in the seeming reluctance to replace established drivers (Massa, Alonso, Raikkenon) with unproven talent (lack of testing opportunity?) and the dilemma for team bosses is clear.

[mceci1]

Originally Posted by peebee2

I'm sure you know best...

McLaren want rid of Honda.
Red Bull want rid of Renault.
Red Bull want sponsorship.
Red Bull quite happy to see the back of Sainz.
Renault want to replace Palmer.
Renault happy to get cash from McLaren.

PeeBee quit while your ahead, I am not a European but I can see that Red Bull don't want to boot Carlos, you hate for him and his father make viablilty questionable, Horner and Helmet have said they don't want to see him go anywhere next year. Honda have said that they are with McLaren under a contract, its all media hype, hate to blow your bubble

[mceci1]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

This Article suggests that in the musical chairs game on right now for engines, sponsorship & drivers, that Mr Sainz may be on loan for season 2018, and may be available for recall to Red Bull proper for 2019 should a seat open up.

It is VERY complicated...

This is just plain confusing, what a mess it has turned out to be actually. I am a McLaren fan, but at the end of the day they signed with Honda, they have to stick with it. FIA too need to stamp down on Ferrari and Mercedes and say right, we are given a base package to Honda, if you don't like it too bad, we make the rules here not you

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally Posted by mceci1

This is just plain confusing, what a mess it has turned out to be actually. I am a McLaren fan, but at the end of the day they signed with Honda, they have to stick with it. FIA too need to stamp down on Ferrari and Mercedes and say right, we are given a base package to Honda, if you don't like it too bad, we make the rules here not you

So the FIA should step in to limit the progress Mercedes and Ferrari have made, just because Honda have produced a donkey? The pinnacle of motorsport...

[mceci1]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

So the FIA should step in to limit the progress Mercedes and Ferrari have made, just because Honda have produced a donkey? The pinnacle of motorsport...

No, but when Honda looked at joining in 15 FIA raised the question of should we have a base package, only Ferrari and Mercedes Vetoed it, when realistically it wouldn't have affected them, even with a base for Honda

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by mceci1

PeeBee quit while your ahead, I am not a European but I can see that Red Bull don't want to boot Carlos, you hate for him and his father make viablilty questionable, Horner and Helmet have said they don't want to see him go anywhere next year. Honda have said that they are with McLaren under a contract, its all media hype, hate to blow your bubble

LOL will be good fun to see what happens. If I want to sell something, I might talk up how much I want it to get the value I want...

[mceci1]

Originally Posted by peebee2

LOL will be good fun to see what happens. If I want to sell something, I might talk up how much I want it to get the value I want...

Seriously by sitting here going off what I'd call nonsense at this stage you are confusing things, we all need to sit back, some get our facts on this and then see. Up until today, ONE, media group in Australia that I know of had said anything, and at that the article look as though it was written by a 2 year old. If it doesn't come from the bulls mouth, I am not believing it. As I said, it seems to be turned into nothing but speculation and making it all messy.

I am not trying to be hostile, but seriously, no one knows yet

[gert]

Originally Posted by mceci1

Seriously by sitting here going off what I'd call nonsense at this stage you are confusing things

Nobody ever knows until things are official, and even then ...

As far as has been rumored (by Autosport, Motorsport, ...) it's looking increasingly likely:
* Torro Rosso - Honda
* McLaren - Renault
* Renault: Sainz (with an option for Red Bull to get him back if desired)

If it is rumored by at least some respectable media, I don't think anyone is spreading nonsense - except maybe that media's source?

The only thing that I'd call inaccurate is that Red Bull seems to be glad to get rid of Sainz. That seems not true, if they included the option to get him back.
I'd word it as: Red Bull doesn't want to stand in the way of Sainz if he can find a better seat rather than a Torro Rosso-Honda.

[mceci1]

Originally Posted by gert

Nobody ever knows until things are official, and even then ...

As far as has been rumored (by Autosport, Motorsport, ...) it's looking increasingly likely:
* Torro Rosso - Honda
* McLaren - Renault
* Renault: Sainz (with an option for Red Bull to get him back if desired)

If it is rumored by at least some respectable media, I don't think anyone is spreading nonsense - except maybe that media's source?

The only thing that I'd call inaccurate is that Red Bull seems to be glad to get rid of Sainz. That seems not true, if they included the option to get him back.
I'd word it as: Red Bull doesn't want to stand in the way of Sainz if he can find a better seat rather than a Torro Rosso-Honda.

Thing is though, if F1 did allow the base package engine for Honda back in 2015, we may see a different story, only the VETO happened. Shame really actually, teams need a say, but the big teams in motorsport worldwide are at the point that they basically run the show, and if the managing group of a given form of motorsport wants to help the small teams, the big teams have an outcry and threaten to pull the pin.

[mceci1]

The other thing I don't get with F1 teams, is why they constantly blame the manufacturer of engine for things that aren't the engine providers fault. Perfect example is Red Bull, they complain that Renault aren't good, yet Dan has had 7 podiums I think this year, and only 3 DNF's, in contrast, Max has had 6 DNF's and 1 podium, so it isn't an issue with Renault is it is being claimed as such, otherwise both would be out. I think in Red Bull's case, Max is overdriving, and therefore hurting his car, Red Bull have pride, as all teams should and aren't really wanting to take the blame, therefore Renault cops it. I am not a supporter of any other the engine providers, only really like the Mercedes AMG models, but teams need to take responsibility and do R&D as well, after all, the only factory teams are Renault, Ferrari, Mercedes and McLaren, anyone under them, if those four are performing is a minor priority

[ScotsBrutesFan]

There is a base specification in place, all the PU manufacturers have built to that. The issue is that some manufactures have been able to optimise their designs within those specifications better in terms of overall power output, drive ability. There are still issues for all of them with the parts failing within their designed life as required not by the spec but by the regulations.

[mceci1]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

There is a base specification in place, all the PU manufacturers have built to that. The issue is that some manufactures have been able to optimise their designs within those specifications better in terms of overall power output, drive ability. There are still issues for all of them with the parts failing within their designed life as required not by the spec but by the regulations.

F1 isn't F1 anymore, just getting to confusing for its own good. Look at V8s, WTCC, Nascar. We have regulations, but it isn't huge limitations, it limits them for cost effectiveness, but is still highly successful and have some of the best racing in them. V8s in particular stands out for me given its a national sport