Sports GT Racing and the Environment

[old man]

The Algae fuel process is indeed very interesting and I suppose we can look forward to one of the companies offering enough fuel for a race, or series of races that would publicise the claim in the Wikipedia piece that the whole process is CO2 nuetral. This would have to be a high profile event, ideally something like Le Mans, I realise that would be very ambitious but not impossible if the fuel is a straight substitute for high octane petrol.

Personally I would be in favour of a general reduction in engine sizes to show the sport is setting an example. When I started watching races we had lots of classes for 1100 and 1200cc engined cars that gave excellent racing and a great sound which, whilst not the same as a big banger, had its own charm. These classes were born of fuel shortages and a shortage of decent engines at the time but they fired my interest in the sport and some of names involved are around today, Lotus and Lola in particular produced some amazing little cars.

I appreciate the love of the noise but we don't have to have big thirsty engines for good racing. Some of the best racing you will ever see involves a 100cc two stroke

[Tim the Grey]

LMP3? Sub 1500cc. Running Bio fuel, of any kind. Turbos allowed, any fuel.
The Catch 22 is it's an Index of Efficiency...

[miatanut]

In the old days, it was gravity-fed refueling. Why not go back to that? Gravity feed through an ACO restrictor with a given maximum head? If refueling was as slow as the typical gas station pump, teams that went for a more fuel-efficient engine would spend a lot less time in the pit. Every team could decide their own priorities between speed on the track and time spent refueling.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by miatanut

In the old days, it was gravity-fed refueling. Why not go back to that? Gravity feed through an ACO restrictor with a given maximum head? If refueling was as slow as the typical gas station pump, teams that went for a more fuel-efficient engine would spend a lot less time in the pit. Every team could decide their own priorities between speed on the track and time spent refueling.

not a bad idea, sounds like an easy way towards an equivalence formula.

[old man]

Bradley Lord in this weeks Autosport is praising an FIA group that I for one had never heard about, the Environmentally Sustainable Motor Sport Commission which headed by Peter Wright. A proposal that competitors be given a a fixed amount of energy to be consumed as efficiently as possible and this to be the basis of racing in some form.

I seem to recall that something along those lines was mentioned in our earlier canter through this general subject and Sports/GT racing is a ripe form of racing for such ideas. I feel I missed something here and firm ideas may have been posted, anybody seen anything of this nature?

[TWK]

So, who do you know who buys a ticket for Silverstone, or Sebring because, it's green, safe, and relevant?

[joeb]

Originally Posted by TWK

So, who do you know who buys a ticket for Silverstone, or Sebring because, it's green, safe, and relevant?

Plenty of people buy tickets for Sebring because of Green Park, that's the same thing right?

[Speed-King]

So, who do you know who buys a ticket for Silverstone, or Sebring because, it's green, safe, and relevant?

If you want to put it that way: No one. But I can imagine people being easier convinced by their friends to spend a day at the track if racing has a greener image, as right now it is by the general public often seen as something completely stupid, useless and wastefull and something only Chavs and rednecks (depending on the country) could like.

[TWK]

One of the things that ISC/Grand Am has gotten right is that "It's about the entertainment, stupid!" (To misquote a famous US political campaign.)

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by TWK

One of the things that ISC/Grand Am has gotten right is that "It's about the entertainment, stupid!" (To misquote a famous US political campaign.)

It's ALL about the entertainment as soon as people are remotely ready to watch...

But as long as the only thing I when I tellthat I'll spend the next weekend at the Nürburgring are weird looks, I won't convince these people to go to a race with me.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

If you want to put it that way: No one. But I can imagine people being easier convinced by their friends to spend a day at the track if racing has a greener image, as right now it is by the general public often seen as something completely stupid, useless and wastefull and something only Chavs and rednecks (depending on the country) could like.

I think it takes great imagination to come to that conclusion in any numbers. If "green racing" does anything, it MIGHT provide cover for such programs in the corporate board room which budget time rolls around. But recent history puts that into doubt, too, doesn't it?

[Gingers4Justice]

A tree hugging friend of the family was, this year, in need of something to take his mind of things in about mid June. Last minute, we persuaded him to come to Le Mans.

He'd given up the ghost quite early on, and although he'd never watching racing before in his life, he really got in to it over the weekend, and he was fascinated by how relevant all the technology was to the road - and I made the point that manufactures do produce new technoligy for their road cars - brake discs were invented by Jag for Le Mans for example, and don't forget the FAP system on the Pugs which they now put on their road cars.

He enjoyed the weekend, he's now a Le Mans addict and he allows himself to enjoy it because he now knows it doesn't go against his principles.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

A tree hugging friend of the family was, this year, in need of something to take his mind of things in about mid June. Last minute, we persuaded him to come to Le Mans.

He'd given up the ghost quite early on, and although he'd never watching racing before in his life, he really got in to it over the weekend, and he was fascinated by how relevant all the technology was to the road - and I made the point that manufactures do produce new technoligy for their road cars - brake discs were invented by Jag for Le Mans for example, and don't forget the FAP system on the Pugs which they now put on their road cars.

He enjoyed the weekend, he's now a Le Mans addict and he allows himself to enjoy it because he now knows it doesn't go against his principles.

You're suggesting he attended Le Mans because it was green, safe, and relevant? (Which, when compared to the ALMS in "greeness" it certainly is not. Nor is it, when compared to any one of a thousand activities he might have pursued to "take his mind off things.") How about a nice little hike in the Cotswolds?

200,000+ people show up in automobiles to watch 50 vehicles consume 30,000 gallons (114,000 liters) of gasoline and 5,600 tires, while eating 50,000 crepes, 25,000 pasties (hungry Cornishmen), 150,000 bangers, untold liters of mushy peas, not an inconsiderable quantity of frogs, and enough malt beverage (and grape squeezings) to refloat the Bismark and the Hood.

I'm having some trouble with your friend's tree hugger credentials.

[Tim the Grey]

They DO offer vegan pasties...

Some wines are vegan safe too!

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by TWK

So, who do you know who buys a ticket for Silverstone, or Sebring because, it's green, safe, and relevant?

Having been spoiled by the '70's, I'm finding racing a bit stagnant these last few years. Having a new direction for technical development could make things fun again.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

They DO offer vegan pasties...

Some wines are vegan safe too!

Thank you.

[TWK]

In this very site, Tomas Scheckter made a plea to put the speed, and at least the perception of risk, back into racing. It's a damn sport, not an environmental sit-in. Let the Universities compete with their 30 mph odd little solar cars. I go to racing as a sport, to be entertained. NOTHING else.

Coincidentally with Tomas' post, Tony Dowe just made a similar point in a commentary aimed at "What's wrong with ALMS Television" (and by extension the television coverage of just about all of motorsport) over on lastturnclub. I can recommend his observations, but I can't link.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by TWK

In this very site, Tomas Scheckter made a plea to put the speed, and at least the perception of risk, back into racing. It's a damn sport, not an environmental sit-in. Let the Universities compete with their 30 mph odd little solar cars. I go to racing as a sport, to be entertained. NOTHING else

I totally agree with this ..... balls to the greenies I say !!!

[cptkablamo]

Saying all this - has the green agenda really done any harm to ALMS? With the possible exception of NASCAR, are American series that don't have a green agenda in any better health?

We deplore the lack of technical innovation on one hand in motorsport then on the other we decry innovation we have got.

[Jonerz]

Some would argue the green agenda has done some harm to the ALMS. By pushing their "green" image over the well being of teams and events is at least questioned by some in and around the series.

Chris

[TWK]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Some would argue the green agenda has done some harm to the ALMS. By pushing their "green" image over the well being of teams and events is at least questioned by some in and around the series.

Chris

Exactly right. If you have a limited promotional budget, what do you spend it on? A message that says "we're green," on flying executives to California to plant trees, attend conferences on the environment, and placing a spread (that's the term for two facing pages) about being green in AutoWeek? Or do you spend that same money on messages that say, "come to the track for exciting racing between the coolest cars in the world, bring the family, walk the paddock?"

That latter message has been degraded in recent years, if not entirely lost, in favor of "we're green."

I think that's just plain stupid. If they want to pitch green racing, pitch it to the auto companies directly, and let them use that message to promote their cars and technology. That is cost-effective and has a chance of being helpful. Pitching green racing to the general public by the series at the expense of pitching its entertainment value is just about the most nonsensical thing I've seen in marketing in the 35 years since I earned my university degree in that discipline.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Some would argue the green agenda has done some harm to the ALMS. By pushing their "green" image over the well being of teams and events is at least questioned by some in and around the series.

Chris

Some would argue that they own the franchise rights to selling ice-water in hades.





L.P.

[cptkablamo]

Yeah - I tend to agree that they have the wrong strategy for marketing their 'green' - they really should be putting the deals together as they have done and leave it to the manufacturers and suppliers to do that advertising, and ALMS promotes the racing...

But I still contest that saying they would be in a significantly better position if they didn't go green would also be false...

Judgment really should be held off either until they, ie ALMS fails, or a couple years beyond the recovery to see if they got it right. Even if you don't agree with the green agenda, much of the consumer sentiment now demands it, and in the mid term, this may be successful

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Those two are easy. If only people would accept radioactivity as being natural.
Don't believe me? Set a geiger counter to neutral anywhere around either site you mentioned. Then take it to Aberdeen, and watch it go nuts. Granite is radioactive.

Yet the greens insist there must be ZERO leakage from a storage facility? Daft.

I now return you to your topic.

I happen to know a woman who was an active member of greenpeace . She led a diving expedition on a dive at the said location . She didnt know that she was pregnant at the time . Her first baby was born with hands on her shoulders ..... and her second baby was born simelar . So , im sorry , but dont try and tell me about that place being safe .

Leakage is acceptable then ? I bet you , you dont live near there , then you wouldnt say such junk .

They are both the same site by the way . Name was changed to hopefully take some of the flak away .

Putting things into perspective ..... motorsport has a long way to go before crap like that starts to happen !!! People keep addressing motorsport when they should be focusing in other directions , or not ?

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by TWK

You're suggesting he attended Le Mans because it was green, safe, and relevant? (Which, when compared to the ALMS in "greeness" it certainly is not. Nor is it, when compared to any one of a thousand activities he might have pursued to "take his mind off things.") How about a nice little hike in the Cotswolds?

200,000+ people show up in automobiles to watch 50 vehicles consume 30,000 gallons (114,000 liters) of gasoline and 5,600 tires, while eating 50,000 crepes, 25,000 pasties (hungry Cornishmen), 150,000 bangers, untold liters of mushy peas, not an inconsiderable quantity of frogs, and enough malt beverage (and grape squeezings) to refloat the Bismark and the Hood.

I'm having some trouble with your friend's tree hugger credentials.

The potential net gain outweighs all the pollution the event actually produces. If you've been to Le Mans, its a great place to take your mind off things - when during the weekend do you get a chance to think about anything other than the race or drink? Better than a week in the cotswold left with nothing but your own thoughts

My point was it was pretty easy to make him see why it was relevant. It is. I gave clear examples of techinical innovations that we first seen at Le Mans. It is a test of endurance, and therefore you have that performance/economic balance.