F1 in schools

[awrb]

Originally Posted by jab

There's got to be a way of doing it somehow. It doesn't take much. In fact, it goes beyond schools. We need more fan interaction in general. F1 is so protective of the drivers today. You can't get close to them anymore

I agree, there should be more promotion for the sport, they should do things to get people interested, I just don't think schools are the place to do it. I agree drivers should get out and do things to get noticed and get F1 in peoples minds. I don't think we should worry about loosing all fans though. Older generation got into the sport themselves, so some of us have followed. At least we've got good tv coverage so people can follow it easily.

[bendy]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

I agree that this is how F1 best sits within a school environment. You can't "do F1" in PE the way you might play football or do athletics, but considering the lack of interest that a lot of kids have in scientific subjects (or subjects that are in any way complex), I would have thought that presenting them with an opportunity to learn how the skills are applied in an environment like F1 would be a good way of getting them interested. And of course, if a school is fortunate enough to be situated anywhere near an F1 team's factory, why not arrange a visit rather than expecting the team to come to you? It has to be better than the visit to Blackburn Rovers FC that I was saddled with when I was at school.

It's not just F1 though that isn't well known in schools, motorsport as a whole is mainly alien to most kids. Its so disappointing that I am literally the only person in my education career that has been interested in Motorsport.

It SHOULD be taught and told about in schools, perhaps not physically, but in an activities after school to kart track or something. Many kids dont know what an engine does! They just dont know what they're missing out on at all.

And motorsport needn't be that expensive either (ok maybe if you want to do well) but for others it can be really cheap. Stupid education system!

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by bendy

And motorsport needn't be that expensive either (ok maybe if you want to do well) but for others it can be really cheap. Stupid education system!

If we seriously believe that I'm afraid we are out of touch with the real world. Think about entry level sports for youngsters for a minute. Just to pluck a few sports out of the air:

Football or Rugby, to have a go all a youngster needs is a ball and a few mates, the cost really is virtually nothing. For a very little he can compete in a whole season of his local kids league. Not much travelling as it is pretty local for most youngsters.

Tennis, find a mate who wants to play and hire a court for an hour for a fiver, that's two and a half quid each. Most kids have suitable clothes and shoes already, night have to buy a racquet and a few balls but basic kit is very cheap now, cheaper than ever in fact.

Bowls, nothing needed except the price of hire of the woods and green indoors or out, hired by the hour for a small sum shared by all who are playing (not the woods I mean the cost of the green is shared.

Ice skating, comes up quite expensive at seven pounds including skate hire but this is for a session lasting several hours.

Cheapest way I have found to get involved with motor sport is arrive and drive Karting at about one pound per minute.

Let's suppose we are a kid with a fiver to spend on sport, we can have:

Virtually Unlimited football or Rugby.
One hours tennis.
Maybe an hour or so playing bowls.
Pays for most of a session of ice skating, maybe a couple of hours.

Or a whole five minutes Karting.

My life is massively enriched by my interest in motorsport and I actively encourage others to get involved but lets not kid ourselves it is not, never has been and probably never will be a cheap sport that everyone can get involved in.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant or is overly UK centric, as I say we have a great sport but we shouldn't kid ourselves about it.

[jab]

But surely the fact that it isn't as easy to go and do as football or rugby is perhaps a good reason why it needs more proactive encouragement through schools

On the subject of expense, I did a little bit of "racing" in a buggy for free as part of a weekend up at the Urdd camp in Llangrannog in West Wales. Obviously it's cost-inclusive but it wasn't that expensive a weekend and that included other stuff as well. It wasn't exactly for long either but something's better than nothing. And you can drive karts (not proper ones but they're motorised vehicles) for a little while at theme parks and places like that. So, in a way, Bendy's right - it doesn't have to cost that much

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by jab

But surely the fact that it isn't as easy to go and do as football or rugby is perhaps a good reason why it needs more proactive encouragement through schools

I don't disagree that it is expensive to go and do - insurance, as Adam pointed out earlier, is a major hurdle - but that doesn't mean it should be left out of school altogether

Schools aim to get kids involved in a handful of sports, there are dozens of minority sports out there that schools do not get involved in and much as we love it motorsport is just one of those and a very expensive one at that. By all means push for the motorsport industry to put some money and effort into raising awareness amongst schools and school children but the approach won't be coming from the schools and frankly there is no reason why it should.

[Quintin03]

Maybe it's better to stop the discusion on the participation in motorsport at school and get back to the engineering side which, IMO, is much more relevant to education. Few benefit from sports classes while many benefit from science and chemistry classes.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

If we seriously believe that I'm afraid we are out of touch with the real world. Think about entry level sports for youngsters for a minute. Just to pluck a few sports out of the air:

Football or Rugby, to have a go all a youngster needs is a ball and a few mates, the cost really is virtually nothing. For a very little he can compete in a whole season of his local kids league. Not much travelling as it is pretty local for most youngsters.

Tennis, find a mate who wants to play and hire a court for an hour for a fiver, that's two and a half quid each. Most kids have suitable clothes and shoes already, night have to buy a racquet and a few balls but basic kit is very cheap now, cheaper than ever in fact.

I would add that for football and rugby you do have some specialist clothing (boots and mouthguards in the case of the latter, for example), but no more expensive than tennis. The cheapest in that regard is probably basketball (OK, some people have taken to the idea of mouthguards, but it's just that in theory, but not always in practice*, basketball is non-contact ...).

* No, I'm not talking about when Ron Artest gets soft drinks thrown at him.

Bowls, nothing needed except the ...

Ice skating, comes up quite expensive at seven pounds including skate hire but this is for a session lasting several hours.

Cheapest way I have found to get involved with motor sport is arrive and drive Karting at about one pound per minute. ...

My life is massively enriched by my interest in motorsport and I actively encourage others to get involved but lets not kid ourselves it is not, never has been and probably never will be a cheap sport that everyone can get involved in.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant or is overly UK centric, as I say we have a great sport but we shouldn't kid ourselves about it.

Absolutely. Motorsport will always be probably the one of the most expensive sports to participate (it could be less expensive, but it will always still be expensive) in, and that is unavoidable.

Originally Posted by Quintin03

Maybe it's better to stop the discusion on the participation in motorsport at school and get back to the engineering side which, IMO, is much more relevant to education.

I agree, motorsport is a good way of promoting engineering.

Few benefit from sports classes while many benefit from science and chemistry classes.

You should see the number of obese kids these days ...

[bendy]

What I was saying is that you needn't be well off to have the knowledge and benefit from it. And in terms of kids actually having a go, then it ISNT that expensive (if occassional which other sports arent), it could easily be arranged as an activity after school, i.e. not officially with the school. It need not be an activity in the curriculum. In terms of competing, it is expensive, but having said this, with myself being in a fortunate position and at a Private school, I am the only person out of 800 that actually do it! Now that can't be due to money....

[bendy]

Also, there are things like Go Motorsport that offers people and potentially kids the opportunity to have a go, yet this is NOT educated/publicised enough when it should be.

Oh and engineering too is also rare throughout schooling (yes there are some specialist colleges etc.) but this doesn't particularly involve motorsport, when perhaps it should.

[GolddustMini]

engineering is being pushed in schools, one of the new 14-19 diplomas is in engineering, its a step in the right direction i guess

[bendy]

Well I guess, but it'll be a crappy course where all that is taught, is the stuff that is required for the exam and will not involve motorsport. I think the issue is the lack of information and education on the world of motorsport which will no doubt lead to the sport diminishing, which is criminal. And all this crap about global warming will no doubt contribute to its downfall.

[awrb]

Originally Posted by bendy

Well I guess, but it'll be a crappy course where all that is taught, is the stuff that is required for the exam and will not involve motorsport. I think the issue is the lack of information and education on the world of motorsport which will no doubt lead to the sport diminishing, which is criminal. And all this crap about global warming will no doubt contribute to its downfall.

But if you aim it at motorsport we'll have hundreds of engineers and not enough jobs. Even if schools mention F1, or people go on a motorsport engineering course, I don't think it would really change the amount of fans. You either like it or you don't, and if you like it you'll watch it, it's not as if people haven't heard of F1.

[JeremySmith]

Speaking in English would be a good place to start then they can introduce F1 into the program...

Most young people I take to these days sound like they have created their own language...

[bendy]

Its not about whether kids have heard of F1, it's whether they understand it enough to have the CHANCE to appreciate it. i.e. most kids dont know about it enough to have an opinion, it's just "I saw some the other day on TV, so boring watching cars go round and round. It's only good when they crash" that kind of crap.

And I think mentioning and explaining some key areas of motorsport as a whole will not only get them involved in the sport, or make them want to find out more, but also increase support for it, dont you?

[Andy77]

First off, there are different school systems which barely allow time for sport lessons. I remember that in 94, when I was on a pupil exchange to Bolton, the they had full day school until 3 or 4pm. During my time in school in Germany school ended 1 pm under worst circumstance (ie teacher cant attend for whatever reason and there is no replacement). We had 90 minutes for sports per week. But that meant all sorts of sports from gymnastics over athletics to all sorts of team sports like handball, football, (field)hockey. Sports in general are done in the local clubs and not in school teams. Of course there are school teams too but these are up to yourself if you want to participate and if you want to spend additionally time in school.
It continues today with already too few teachers and schools being that underfunded that parents have to buy the school books and stuff. And a system (here in Germany), that cut down the 2nd part of secondary school to 2 years , which basicly means that pupils have to go through school stuff worth of 3 years in between 2 years if they want to continue to college.

Motorsports engineering, however, could be used to make math and physic lessons more interesting. During my schooldays I always missed the relation to reality of both. For example, calculating the power of a circuit with a lamp in it. The relation to reality gets lost even in such a small example when there is no switch put into the circuit since I don't think that people just hold a bare and blank cable into a power source for some lightning (ooops lol just light that is) . And with building an arc towards physics and math I dont mean the continous repitition that both are really important for engineering but lack of the reality proven examples then.

After all, I think that motorsport is way too expensive and time consuming to be introduced as a sport in schools. But there is one special case it makes sense. The university next town has its formula student team. The students first design their race car and then take it to a circuit. They have a similar project but with AI driven cars too.
Motorsport engineering could be used to throw an arc into reality for physics and maths.

[SeanBlue]

Isn't it better if someone is naturally drawn to motorsports rather than force taught about it in school? Most things I love weren't mentioned in school...

[bendy]

Originally Posted by SeanBlue

Isn't it better if someone is naturally drawn to motorsports rather than force taught about it in school? Most things I love weren't mentioned in school...

Yes of course, but the whole point is, about 90% of kids these days dont know enough about motorsport to actually have an opinion of it. They just think it's just like a thing you do on holiday or at legoland and that F1 is just for old men watching boring lap after lap.

They need to know more in order for them to form an opinion. At the end of the day, I am sure we are losing so much natural talent for the sport when they dont even try it, and schools are the place to learn new things.

I agree with Andy77 that it could easily be used as a good example for physics/engineering etc. And it's good to see universities developing teams/cars, but younger kids need to be told about it so they can choose it at uni.

[JamesH]

Even if you got children interested in F1, (or even the lowest level of club motorsport or karting) - they, in all likely hood, will not be able to take part because of cost reasons. It's also similar in sailing for example, but that is sometimes done in schools, but the kit tends to be rather ancient

And surely you do a sport at school that you can take part in?

Of course, I don't think there is a school playing field in existence that you can fit an F1 track in.

I do know of one school (Oundle Public school), where Ron Champion taught a class - he 'designed' the Locost and some were made at the school. The last I heard they were doing off roaders instead because there wasn't time to complete a whole car in the time they were at the school. And even then the pupils had to pay for the parts - so only the 'rich' children really benefited.

You could of course just teach the engineering side of F1, but most of the F1 specific stuff is degree level (or above!), so would be irrelevant to most people. Which is why motorsport is taught in colleges and universities not at school.

You may as well just teach more general engineering i.e. car maintenance

[bendy]

General engineering etc is also what we're talking about as well as some information on motorsport etc so that the pupils can form an opinion and quite possibly take part. The costs arent just the issue, as I myself am at Uppingham, and like I said before, there are 2 people out of 800 that take part in motorsport. How criminal is that?

[bendy]

I want to ask a question then. Without a doubt, motorsport as a whole is under supported (especially by the younger generations) and not known about at all. How do we sort this out?!

[duke_toaster]

A few things, not just for young people but for other countries and consolidating the lower level fans I can think of are

• Better events from a spectator (both TV and live) point of view.
• More FTA and especially terrestrial TV exposure. Multichannel has been a bit of a damp squib, especially with the only BTCC coverage at a sensible time on a channel that gets 0.8% of the total viewers according to the last figures I can get my hands on.
• Better promotion of events that aren't F1 (from GP2 down to Slough Formula Ford Championship Pre-1986 Class D Sussex engine). This necessitates major shifts in the class structure in both "pro" racing and club series. Of course, change in the first will trickle down to the second. Start off with introducing a single worldwide low cost starter single seater formula that is relevant to levels of motorsport above it, and take that forward to the next bullet point.
• One event that would be great in this day and age is some sort of World Cup (an event, not an A1-style series) - a properly organized one, using a popular set of technical regulations (most definitely not their own, like A1 had), with a format that allows many nations to compete with multicar teams. This especially is a key point for countries that have a strong national team sports tradition where motorsport needs a bit of a kick. Each ASN (e.g. the MSA for the UK, FFSA for France, DMSB for Germany) would be responsible for running the team, not the local friendly crook/footballer/failed politician/pay driver. The FIA should ensure that the event is on FTA TV, too.

[kezza7]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Speaking in English would be a good place to start then they can introduce F1 into the program...

Most young people I take to these days sound like they have created their own language...

Actually, i happen to be a young person (Hooray!) and i have been known to use complex sentences, featuring words such as parsimonious, pedantic and erm, Juxtaposition in everyday language.

At school here is the order of importance of sport which enters conversation:
1: Football
2:F1 and (occasionally) BTCC
3: Rugby
4: Tennis
etc, etc

Top level motorsport is the realm of the rich. We all know that, in most circumstances, drivers come from rich families, (or families with a heavily motorsport induced background). There is nothing we can do about that, motorsport is expensive. FACT. I always wanted to be the next Michael Schumacher until i was about 11 and i tried Karting arrive and drive, you know, a few times, and i really wasn't that bad (if i do say so myself). So the guy said "why don't i see if you can do a few races and stuff", and my dad said, "No". And even though my dreams were shattered, my dad doesn't come from a motorsport background, he grew up in a rough area of Liverpool and played rugby. He knew he wouldn't be able to support any sort of motorsport ambition i had. And i agree, he was right.

Therefore, after my life story, what im saying is people do want to get involved in motorsport but the money isn't there for most people, it's not like people don't enjoy it, exactly the opposite, they love it, but they don't know how, and they can't afford to get involved. The real dream for most people isn't to be on the pitwall or in the factory, but to be on the track. Although i must agree, to design an racing car is a much more exciting interest than the standard curriculum, but whether schools have the money to do this i'm not sure, my school is Catholic and definately doesn't have the funds for something as "trivial" as motorsport!

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by bendy

What I was saying is that you needn't be well off to have the knowledge and benefit from it. And in terms of kids actually having a go, then it ISNT that expensive (if occassional which other sports arent), it could easily be arranged as an activity after school, i.e. not officially with the school. It need not be an activity in the curriculum. In terms of competing, it is expensive, but having said this, with myself being in a fortunate position and at a Private school, I am the only person out of 800 that actually do it! Now that can't be due to money....

Anything organised to do with the school has to be risk-assessed. That's not the teacher's choice, it's the society we live in, and it's an incredibly arduous process - that includes looking at cost and educational value.
If we suggested that a class meet us outside of school for a karting session 1. that can be construed as being outside the usual parameters of a student / teacher relationship; 2. if something goes wrong then it's a very grey area and not one i'd like to be in the middle of.

Originally Posted by bendy

Oh and engineering too is also rare throughout schooling (yes there are some specialist colleges etc.) but this doesn't particularly involve motorsport, when perhaps it should.

Why should it? It's a very minority interest, and the basics of engineering are most likely needed to be learnt first, or at least allow for students to follow a range of paths afterwards.

Originally Posted by bendy

Its not about whether kids have heard of F1, it's whether they understand it enough to have the CHANCE to appreciate it. i.e. most kids dont know about it enough to have an opinion, it's just "I saw some the other day on TV, so boring watching cars go round and round. It's only good when they crash" that kind of crap.

And I think mentioning and explaining some key areas of motorsport as a whole will not only get them involved in the sport, or make them want to find out more, but also increase support for it, dont you?

I have had the chance to relate my subject (Business Studies) to my motorsport (or lack of it) many times, but have always stayed away from it. Why? Because 90% of my class would switch off, I realise that and also that my job is to educate in a way accessible to all. It's called inclusion, it's rammed into most teachers most of the time these days. TO put it in rudimentary terms, I don't know much about lacrosse. If I wanted to I'd go and find out about it. But I don't necessarily want to!

To be honest, a lot of motorsport is pretty dull. The finer aspects will be lost, and that's because society has become wham-bam-thank you ma'am instant gratification expected. Not a problem caused by education, i'd guess.

This seems negative, but there is space for it as an extra-curricular activity if planned and implemented correctly. I have plans for a project in my school, but can see so many obstacles ahead. "Education" just isn't simple. Sorry!

[bendy]

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

Anything organised to do with the school has to be risk-assessed. That's not the teacher's choice, it's the society we live in, and it's an incredibly arduous process - that includes looking at cost and educational value.
If we suggested that a class meet us outside of school for a karting session 1. that can be construed as being outside the usual parameters of a student / teacher relationship; 2. if something goes wrong then it's a very grey area and not one i'd like to be in the middle of.


Why should it? It's a very minority interest, and the basics of engineering are most likely needed to be learnt first, or at least allow for students to follow a range of paths afterwards.


I have had the chance to relate my subject (Business Studies) to my motorsport (or lack of it) many times, but have always stayed away from it. Why? Because 90% of my class would switch off, I realise that and also that my job is to educate in a way accessible to all. It's called inclusion, it's rammed into most teachers most of the time these days. TO put it in rudimentary terms, I don't know much about lacrosse. If I wanted to I'd go and find out about it. But I don't necessarily want to!

To be honest, a lot of motorsport is pretty dull. The finer aspects will be lost, and that's because society has become wham-bam-thank you ma'am instant gratification expected. Not a problem caused by education, i'd guess.

This seems negative, but there is space for it as an extra-curricular activity if planned and implemented correctly. I have plans for a project in my school, but can see so many obstacles ahead. "Education" just isn't simple. Sorry!

(Sorry, forgot about multi quotes!)

I understand that totally, but if it IS outside class, then the parents become totally responsible, and the teacher is simply there. Everything is a grey area these days when things go wrong for kids.


Yes exactly, but it doesnt currently follow this path, or mostly it doesn't. Only specific universities do it.


How can you say motorsport is dull?! Perhaps the nitty gritty absolute detail may be to some, but for kids, the thought of going really fast and racing against other people must be an amazing thought that MOST kids don't know about/ever heard of, and your F1 Business Studies thing is testiment to that (although I guess you were talking about the business side?)

[GolddustMini]

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

Anything organised to do with the school has to be risk-assessed. That's not the teacher's choice, it's the society we live in, and it's an incredibly arduous process - that includes looking at cost and educational value.
If we suggested that a class meet us outside of school for a karting session 1. that can be construed as being outside the usual parameters of a student / teacher relationship; 2. if something goes wrong then it's a very grey area and not one i'd like to be in the middle of.



Why should it? It's a very minority interest, and the basics of engineering are most likely needed to be learnt first, or at least allow for students to follow a range of paths afterwards.



I have had the chance to relate my subject (Business Studies) to my motorsport (or lack of it) many times, but have always stayed away from it. Why? Because 90% of my class would switch off, I realise that and also that my job is to educate in a way accessible to all. It's called inclusion, it's rammed into most teachers most of the time these days. TO put it in rudimentary terms, I don't know much about lacrosse. If I wanted to I'd go and find out about it. But I don't necessarily want to!

To be honest, a lot of motorsport is pretty dull. The finer aspects will be lost, and that's because society has become wham-bam-thank you ma'am instant gratification expected. Not a problem caused by education, i'd guess.

This seems negative, but there is space for it as an extra-curricular activity if planned and implemented correctly. I have plans for a project in my school, but can see so many obstacles ahead. "Education" just isn't simple. Sorry!

well said.