[Rumours] 2016 Driver Silly Season & Beyond

[bella]

it's pretty inevitable, it's just a matter of where, why and when.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

So... who will end up at HaasF1 then?

Mr Button & Mr Rossi?

This would be my pairing of choice, if McLaren are stupid enough to let Jense go he would be my absolute pick.
Knows everything about F1, is a really good development driver by all accounts, knows how to build a team, knows how to get on with people, is much quicker than he is given credit for and is a WDC!
Same roll that Coulthard had at RBR when they formed.
Whatever you were forced to pay him it would be a bargain!

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by bella

how about lance stroll? he won't be far away in terms of racing experience, what with being ferrari's wealthy pet north american and all...

Stroll also has not had the results Max Verstappen had last year.

last year Max Verstappen won a race in his 2nd weekend, he also had a P2 in his first weekend.

Stroll's best was P4 so far.

[bella]

doesn't matter, results are academic. have you seen the size of stroll snr's wallet?

the family owns prema and he's been signed by ferrari for several years. they know what they're doing...

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Well given Max's results, why not put Leclerc in a car because he's just as good. Verstappen would struggle to replicate his results in this years' field Imo, although he would win races and be a frontrunner.

As for Stroll's budget, it is inevitable...

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

. Verstappen would struggle to replicate his results in this years' field Imo,

.

why?

he was beating Rosenqvist and Giovinazzi last year and they are now the front runners.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Verstappen would struggle to replicate his results in this years' field Imo, .

2014

3 Verstappen 411 points(10 wins)
6 Giovinazzi 238 points(2 wins)
9 Rosenqvist 198 points (1 win)

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

I don't want to start a meaningless argument but surely you understand how experience is invaluable in junior single seaters. Look at the past 3 GP2 champions...

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

I don't want to start a meaningless argument but surely you understand how experience is invaluable in junior single seaters. Look at the past 3 GP2 champions...

Apparently not, look at Max Verstappen!

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

I don't want to start a meaningless argument but surely you understand how experience is invaluable in junior single seaters. Look at the past 3 GP2 champions...

Max had no experience last year and won more races than anyone, including Giovanazzi and Rosenqvist who had more(also F3) experience.

so if he defeated them last year without any experience why would'nt he been able to beat them this year?

your "logic" seems really illogical

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

One exception (who is phenomenal) but so many more that prove the rule...

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

One exception (who is phenomenal) but so many more that prove the rule...

but you mentioned Max , not other drivers.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Well guys like Giovinazzi have got that extra season's experience and know how, and we have similarly mega rookies in Leclerc, Russell, Albon, Stroll, etc, as well as the ever-present Rosenqvist. It's a better grid than last year in depth, that's why I think Verstappen would struggle to repeat his results such as the crazy winning streak he had mid-season. As I have said, he would be a frontrunner, but not the frontrunner for so many rounds.

Personally I'm surprised I find myself explaining the logic behind this, how you can't even consider this point of view imo is astonishing...

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Well guys like Giovinazzi have got that extra season's experience and know how, and we have similarly mega rookies in Leclerc, Russell, Albon, Stroll, etc, as well as the ever-present Rosenqvist. It's a better grid than last year in depth, that's why I think Verstappen would struggle to repeat his results such as the crazy winning streak he had mid-season. As I have said, he would be a frontrunner, but not the frontrunner for so many rounds.

Personally I'm surprised I find myself explaining the logic behind this, how you can't even consider this point of view imo is astonishing...

I'm not sure either Bisc...

Are any of those guys on the same level as Max, Ocon, Fuoco or Blomqvist? Leclerc might be but Rosenvist seems as quick as any of them whereas generally last year he was outpaced by the four I mentioned.

I always thought last year was one of those once in a generation sort of F3 seasons that only come along every 10 years or so!

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Well guys like Giovinazzi have got that extra season's experience and know how, and we have similarly mega rookies in Leclerc, Russell, Albon, Stroll, etc, as well as the ever-present Rosenqvist. It's a better grid than last year in depth, that's why I think Verstappen would struggle to repeat his results such as the crazy winning streak he had mid-season. As I have said, he would be a frontrunner, but not the frontrunner for so many rounds.

Personally I'm surprised I find myself explaining the logic behind this, how you can't even consider this point of view imo is astonishing...

And Max would also have a extra year of experience , and the rookies you mention have not had the results Max had last year when he already won a race in his 2nd weekend.

the best drivers have left the championship(Ocon,Blomqvist,Fuocco,Auer,King) so if anything the field is NOT as strong as last year

[GTRMagic]

Not sure this chat is talking about the 2016 F1 grid spots...

It is surprising that there is no noise about the HaasF1 lineup, other than they have reportedly set a target of September to have their deals locked away.

You would imagine its unlikely the team will take a punt on a complete rookie... but stranger things have happened...

What markets is Haas Automation trying to unlock? Maybe that will open up the driver selection possibilities...

[steve nielsen]

how about THIS for "silly season"



(BTW for some reason Turvey was running the Mclaren wit Verstappen's chosen number 33)

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

And Max would also have a extra year of experience , and the rookies you mention have not had the results Max had last year when he already won a race in his 2nd weekend.

the best drivers have left the championship(Ocon,Blomqvist,Fuoco,Auer,King) so if anything the field is NOT as strong as last year

I was suggesting if Verstappen entered this season as a rookie. If he had a 2nd year in F3 he'd crush them all. And not just down to pace, but due to experience. Suddenly if Verstappen has an extra year then it makes a difference yet if Giovinazzi, Rosenqvist, Dennis, etc then it doesn't. I know you rate Verstappen very highly and so do I, but the fact he's in F1 right now is irrelevant to my argument. In this season's field, would he really be noticeably better than Leclerc? They'd be very, very close imo.

And yes, it may be good to get back on topic. Hamilton will get a new contract by Monaco according to Autosport, which suggests that the WCC and WDC will indeed continue in F1 together, despite speculation from people desperate to start some talking despite the monumental logic flaw...

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

I was suggesting if Verstappen entered this season as a rookie. If he had a 2nd year in F3 he'd crush them all. And not just down to pace, but due to experience. Suddenly if Verstappen has an extra year then it makes a difference yet if Giovinazzi, Rosenqvist, Dennis, etc then it doesn't. I know you rate Verstappen very highly and so do I, but the fact he's in F1 right now is irrelevant to my argument. In this season's field, would he really be noticeably better than Leclerc? They'd be very, very close imo.

And yes, it may be good to get back on topic. Hamilton will get a new contract by Monaco according to Autosport, which suggests that the WCC and WDC will indeed continue in F1 together, despite speculation from people desperate to start some talking despite the monumental logic flaw...

but Max also won more races than Rosenqvist and Giovinazzi last year when he was a rookie.

Rosenqvist already had 4 seasons(2010,2011,2012,2013) of F3 experience at the beginning of 2014, Giovannazzi 1.5(he drove both Euro F3 and British F3 in 2013, in total 43 races).

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

but Max also won more races than Rosenqvist and Giovinazzi last year when he was a rookie.

Rosenqvist already had 4 seasons(2010,2011,2012,2013) of F3 experience at the beginning of 2014, Giovannazzi 1.5(he drove both Euro F3 and British F3 in 2013, in total 43 races).

For god's sake they have an EXTRA season's worth of experience, Giovinazzi was very quick and often beating Verstappen from Red Bull Ring onwards (7-5 Verstappen) and with extra experience, why would he not be? Rosenqvist is now at Prema and has 6 poles out of 6 without steward intervention. Leclerc would have a season of being at the front of whatever FR2.0 series he was in and looks very capable.

Why would Verstappen be noticeably better than him? Why would a karting rookie beat Leclerc as his teammate? Why would a karting rookie beat the most experienced and one of the fastest drivers in the field at the best team? Why would a karting rookie beat the most consistent and in-form driver in the series? And we saw with Russell, Albon and Rosenqvist's qualifying mishaps that it's difficult to progress through the top 10 due to the depth of talent, regardless of how fast you are.

I'm not saying he doesn't deserve F1, he's a phenomenal talent. What I'm saying though is that his talent alone without the experience would not be enough for him to have achieved what he has if his career started a year later (whilst everyone else's career paths remained the exact same - that's the most unlikely bit )

As for him at McLaren, Dennis had headaches over choosing Button over Magnussen (and tbh they don't need Alonso as much as Alonso needed a drive for this season, for as long as they have one WDC...) and I'm sure Stoffel Vandoorne, who has to get a good F1 drive for the sake of all things rational, just means he's stocking up on more paracetemol!

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

For god's sake they have an EXTRA season's worth of experience, Giovinazzi was very quick and often beating Verstappen from Red Bull Ring onwards (7-5 Verstappen) and with extra experience, why would he not be? Rosenqvist is now at Prema and has 6 poles out of 6 without steward intervention. Leclerc would have a season of being at the front of whatever FR2.0 series he was in and looks very capable.

Why would Verstappen be noticeably better than him? Why would a karting rookie beat Leclerc as his teammate? Why would a karting rookie beat the most experienced and one of the fastest drivers in the field at the best team? Why would a karting rookie beat the most consistent and in-form driver in the series? And we saw with Russell, Albon and Rosenqvist's qualifying mishaps that it's difficult to progress through the top 10 due to the depth of talent, regardless of how fast you are.

I'm not saying he doesn't deserve F1, he's a phenomenal talent. What I'm saying though is that his talent alone without the experience would not be enough for him to have achieved what he has if his career started a year later (whilst everyone else's career paths remained the exact same - that's the most unlikely bit )

As for him at McLaren, Dennis had headaches over choosing Button over Magnussen (and tbh they don't need Alonso as much as Alonso needed a drive for this season, for as long as they have one WDC...) and I'm sure Stoffel Vandoorne, who has to get a good F1 drive for the sake of all things rational, just means he's stocking up on more paracetemol!

so THEY would have extra experience but Max would'nt?

still totaly illogical

He was much better last year than both Rosenqvist and Giovinazzi and there is absolutely NO REASON to think he would'nt be this season.

only if you start "changing the circumstances" as you seemingly like to do to make your point even thougt it makes no sense at all.

stick to the facts: without any experience in any official racing series Max won more races in Euro F3 than any other driver last year.

Giovinazzi only won 2 races last year(with 43 F3 races before that season), Max won 10(without any experience in any official racing series at all).

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

so THEY would have extra experience but Max would'nt?

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!

Yes it's illogical (to some extent) but aren't all 'what if' scenarios as that's why they exist as scenarios and not reality! I know he beat last years' field (other than Ocon and Blomqvist) but what about this seasons? That's the whole point!!!!!!!

The question from the start was that if Max Verstappen began his career in this seasons F3 European series, would he achieve the same success as he did in 2014? I'm arguing that he wouldn't, certainly not initially, although he'd be near the front.

Want to start a new thread for this as I'm bored of having to repeat the same old stuff in the vain hope you'll actually read it...

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!

Yes it's illogical (to some extent) but aren't all 'what if' scenarios as that's why they exist as scenarios and not reality! I know he beat last years' field (other than Ocon and Blomqvist) but what about this seasons? That's the whole point!!!!!!!

The question from the start was that if Max Verstappen began his career in this seasons F3 European series, would he achieve the same success as he did in 2014? I'm arguing that he wouldn't, certainly not initially, although he'd be near the front.

Want to start a new thread for this as I'm bored of having to repeat the same old stuff in the vain hope you'll actually read it...

and if he would beat them aggain you would go on giving all the other drivers extra experience until they beat Max?

Rosenqvist already had 4(!!) seasons of F3 experience last year and won 9 races less than Max.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

and if he would beat them aggain you would go on giving all the other drivers extra experience until they beat Max?

Rosenqvist already had 4(!!) seasons of F3 experience last year and won 9 races less than Max.

You didn't read my previous post did you?!

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

You didn't read my previous post did you?!

Yes I did but you don't seem to be listening to anything I am saying.

Rosenqvist already had 4 seasons of experience last year and still was beaten(an not by a narrow margin) by Max Verstappen who also beat Giovinazzi by a large margin even though Antonio had 43 F3 races and 21 other races of experience.