|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
22 Oct 2017, 21:16 (Ref:3775712) | #126 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 979
|
Quote:
|
||
|
22 Oct 2017, 21:17 (Ref:3775714) | #127 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,547
|
The Verstappen decision to me smacks of a lack of consistantcy, either enforce the rule or don't not when the stewards happen to feel like it.
|
|
|
22 Oct 2017, 21:17 (Ref:3775715) | #128 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,650
|
||
__________________
"Is this stock car racing or is this motorsport?!" - John Cleland |
22 Oct 2017, 21:20 (Ref:3775717) | #129 | |||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,422
|
Ah, consistency.
I don't remember someone else gaining a place in that way and getting away from it. This is the a serious point, many of these things aren't actually the same so the consistency point is always difficult to apply. Although Damon Hill has just said he wants consistency. Quote:
Can you have clarify why you quoted "rules are rules" as if it was something I said. I'm up for discussing this, but not if we're just trying to prove each other wrong. Last edited by Adam43; 22 Oct 2017 at 21:25. Reason: Merge |
|||
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. |
22 Oct 2017, 21:24 (Ref:3775718) | #130 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,650
|
Quote:
Since they showed that Verstappen passed a Sauber on lap 1 having abused track limits, and you can claim that Bottas repassed Verstappen off the track (he had little option, but it's the same as Max, and both voluntarily overtook), that strikes me as inconsistent. And again, if these rules were to be changed in Max's, would the "rules are rules" argument become utterly obsolete? Or would a large section of the motorsport fan base come out angry and disappointed at the FIA because someone overtook and put all four wheels off of the circuit?! Edit: I quoted "rules are rules" because that's the basic gist of the argument. You stating that you'd be penalised for something similar in UK club racing struck me as you making that very argument; that a driver 'abusing' track limits would generally result in a penalty. I'm claiming that your point is utterly irrelevant because we're not questioning the rule itself, but why the rule is in place. To me, it seems that many of us are asking "why is this rule in place?" and an answer we're getting is "because that rule is in place." What a terrible answer. |
||
__________________
"Is this stock car racing or is this motorsport?!" - John Cleland |
22 Oct 2017, 21:27 (Ref:3775720) | #131 | ||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,422
|
I'm afraid I'm not following that. Sorry.
No not irrelevant. And why rules is rules again. Sorry And football is on... Edit: I see you've added more in an edit like I did. Again I was just adding a piece of information, not a gist to my argument. I have only said it is hard to meaure consistent and hard to know what the fans actual want. So you think it was a terrible answer to a question I wasn't answering. Prove someone else wrong on the internet. Football... Last edited by Adam43; 22 Oct 2017 at 21:35. |
||
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. |
22 Oct 2017, 21:34 (Ref:3775723) | #132 | ||
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,212
|
What ever the rule is F1 gives itself another black eye.
Verstappens drive was the highlight of the race,the passing move was the cream on the cake.Must be a lot of casual F1 watchers going WTF at the penalty decision. |
||
|
22 Oct 2017, 21:38 (Ref:3775725) | #133 | ||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,422
|
I agree it was exciting. Driver of the race for sure.
|
||
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. |
22 Oct 2017, 21:39 (Ref:3775727) | #134 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,695
|
Is there a difference between running wide and keeping your foot down so as maintain position whether alongside or ahead of an opponent, and cutting the apex of a corner completely in order to get ahead of an opponent?
I'd say yes. |
||
|
22 Oct 2017, 21:42 (Ref:3775728) | #135 | ||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,422
|
Which is why I am quite catogicially not saying "rules are rules"!
Although, for reference, in U.K. Motorsport it is more likely to be applied as "rules is rules". I say this as it may be interesting not to prove anything. |
||
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. |
22 Oct 2017, 21:52 (Ref:3775731) | #136 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 136
|
Quote:
People are asking "yes, but why should we have that rule", well... What? What would be the point in even having a track if we didn't? You'd either have to say "race within these walls" which, fair enough, would work but would be rather expensive on a regular basis (and less safe) or races would just become a straight line (and we already have drag racing - it's sh*t). I don't see any other way you could conceivably set up a race other than have "stay on the track" be the basic rule. Running wide on an exit is not the same, and is judged differently (for safety, based on when the race it is, etc.) As far as I know, nobody else cut an apex and made a place up. If they had, I'd expect a penalty. Incidentally, I would be dinged 4 places for such a move, not just 1. Otherwise, there's no incentive not to just give it a go on the last lap or two and hope the stewards miss it. Last edited by AndrewCherry; 22 Oct 2017 at 21:53. Reason: Spelling |
|||
|
22 Oct 2017, 21:53 (Ref:3775735) | #137 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 186
|
If you put your foot in touch, it is no try and a line out. It doesn't matter how entertaining you were, or how many other people did it before and got away with it.
Rules are rules. He still gets my man of the match award though. |
||
__________________
I Came, I Saw, I Conga'd |
22 Oct 2017, 21:54 (Ref:3775736) | #138 | ||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,422
|
Andrew, where do you race karts?
|
||
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. |
22 Oct 2017, 21:58 (Ref:3775738) | #139 | |||
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,212
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
22 Oct 2017, 22:02 (Ref:3775740) | #140 | |||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,422
|
Quote:
Maybe my lack of getting in a tizzy about this is because I also follow rugby? Although I also follow NFL and that has a lot of "rules are rules". I bring this up, because that is what the argument is about. (Biscuits ) |
|||
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. |
22 Oct 2017, 22:08 (Ref:3775743) | #141 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 136
|
|||
|
22 Oct 2017, 22:12 (Ref:3775745) | #142 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 186
|
Quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQlJ8K7XjQc |
|||
__________________
I Came, I Saw, I Conga'd |
22 Oct 2017, 22:21 (Ref:3775747) | #143 | |||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,422
|
Quote:
So MSA in karting is as hot onthis kind of thing as in cars. I asked as I was interested which country/governing body, but it's been an excuse for me now to look up X30. |
|||
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. |
22 Oct 2017, 22:23 (Ref:3775748) | #144 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 136
|
I was thinking of Club100 for that kind of penalty - not sure what the MSA stance would be, but I can't imagine "all four wheels off" would be looked on kindly. That said, most places we race, all four wheels off = one way trip to the tires anyway, at least at apexes!
|
||
|
22 Oct 2017, 22:24 (Ref:3775749) | #145 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 804
|
A few great moves out there today.It looked like a cruise for Hamilton.Vettel's move on Bottas was good and Verstappen had a good day-overall.I do wonder if McLaren have mis-timed the engine switch as their cars were a lot less of an embarrassment than they used to be and I have to wonder if they are now the Toro Rosso development team for the rest of the season.
|
|
|
22 Oct 2017, 22:24 (Ref:3775750) | #146 | |||
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,212
|
Max not impressed either....
Quote:
|
|||
|
22 Oct 2017, 22:26 (Ref:3775752) | #147 | |||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,422
|
Quote:
As we are doing videos. https://youtu.be/ywsB65YfLOQ |
|||
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. |
22 Oct 2017, 22:30 (Ref:3775753) | #148 | |||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,422
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. |
22 Oct 2017, 22:46 (Ref:3775756) | #149 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,547
|
||
|
23 Oct 2017, 02:18 (Ref:3775781) | #150 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,801
|
So, I haven't watched the race yet, but I read the results and about the controversy. I decided instead of getting wrapped up in the emotions of what was likely an excellent drive by Max and also ignoring the fact it was the last lap, etc. I just decided to watch just the pass and nothing else.
In what universe can fans of the sports accept allowing for a pass that has all four wheels off in such a way that the corner is cut? As painful as it is, it was clearly the right decision IMHO. Quote:
I am a "Rules is rules" kind of guy. I don't like seeing drivers run wide with all four off, but... it happens all the time and I can't say what happens in F1 drivers meetings, but I believe it is not uncommon for different series to have different "understandings" with the drivers as to what is ok and what is not. All of which is usually clarified before the race. That understanding can also be track specific. I believe COTA is actually somewhat notorious for this type of thing (IMSA and WEC race from a year or two ago in which each series ran races on same day or weekend and had given drivers different allowances as to track limits. It was glaring obvious to fans like myself who watched both races that weekend in person) I believe there is precedent set for this in F1 at other tracks in which running wide in some corners is explicitly forbidden and warnings given to drivers. But to your point... nowhere have I seen allowances made to allow cutting corners. Especially while executing an overtake. Is it messy and a bit inconsistent with the written rules? Yes, but I do believe in general it is relatively enforced consistently. Which is that within reason no penalties for running wide, and also more leeway if not actively overtaking or defending. What I think will always get a penalty is something like this which a corner is cut to overtake or defend. And rightly so! Now I just need to go back and watch the entire race and enjoys Max's drive through the field. Up until the point he forgets what a race track is. That's video game type of driving! Richard |
||
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
Tags |
cota, hartley, red bull, str, usgp |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Round 1: 2015 Australian Grand Prix (Grand Prix Weekend Thread) | FAS33 | Formula One | 160 | 23 Mar 2015 17:53 |
Grand Prix Manager : French Grand Prix results | Wrex | Formula One | 4 | 10 Jul 2003 10:25 |
Grand Prix Manager : French Grand Prix | Asp | Formula One | 6 | 3 Jul 2003 10:31 |
Grand Prix 4 ... Why didn't they call it Grand Prix 2.5? | DNQ | Virtual Racers | 18 | 27 Oct 2002 17:09 |