Simply unbelieveable

[chunder]

This is the first tie I have and will ever criticise anyone to dow ith bike racing, but it seems to me that Dorna are getting a little bit to big for themselves.

I went on You tube today to see if i could see any test footage and it appears that Dorna have stopped individuals or anyone else from using any 2007 footage of testing or anything like that!

And you ahve guessed why already, coz you have to pay for the footahe on the useless MotoGP site that takes hours to load even on boradband!

This I find really petty as the footage has clearly been out for a while and people are just passing it on to the public.

And besides which surely its promoting the sport to a huge and wide audience who might not otherwise know anything about it

Fraid top level bikes are getting more money orientated by the minute and I am oging to email Dorna and let them know how petty they are being

[Dave Brand]

So blatant infringement of copyright is OK, then?

Maybe newspaper shops should install free photocopiers so you don't have spend money on magazines.........

[BootsOntheSide]

Dave is basically right - when you own the copyright to something, you are completely within your rights to stop people viewing it for nothing. It's hard to believe what a nation of cheapskates we have become, wanting everything for free. It's not that long ago that there was minimal motorbike racing coverage on terrestrial TV at all.

[chunder]

Oh dear, what you fail to realise is that this footage is of testing!! its of no great importance really.

And these people and you clearly have never had to work in a PR environment where any kind of exposure is good!

I will say one thing for Dorna and that is that they have the heart to let poeple see older footage, its just 2007 footage that they wont let you see!

And as for being a cheapskate, well you can shove that one where the sun dont shine mate!, why should i pay money for something that is mainly in Spanish and takes money from people, giving it to a company already making vast profits!

Are you related to Ecclestone?

[manwell]

I dont see how youtube is any different to watching it on the news.

The TV stations are permitted to show the footage and dont pay for it.
So how is that any different to youtube?

Really the series/teams/sponsors are getting more exposure. Which can only be benneficial to them.

Its not like anyone downloads a 2 or 3 minute clip off youtube and displays it anywhere for profit.

[Dani Filth]

the difference is that they offer such footage to the subscribers of motogp.com .. if we all can get them through youtube ., what's the point in subscribing ..

[nihil]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

It's not that long ago that there was minimal motorbike racing coverage on terrestrial TV at all.

Sorry mate, but I'm continually amazed at what a nation of sheep we have become. Sure its nice to have such coverage as we do, but if you let Dorna smell the money it won't be long 'til you have to pay through the nose for any live coverage at all.

Don't allow our sport to be bought and sold the way football has been.

[Knowlesy]

Once again, corporate fatheads and the joy police step into the fray to minimise anything enjoyable being handed out to the public.

[BootsOntheSide]

Filming this footage costs them money - having cameras and crew there. Testing was never filmed until there was an opportunity to make it cost-effective. Stop expecting something for nothing.

[Schummy]

Anyway, following the idea of a former poster, if it is in spanish probably it has not any value

[nihil]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Stop expecting something for nothing.

I don't expect something for nothing and I find that attitude incredibly smug (laced with a little bit of self-loathing - don't you think you deserve a little freebie here and there for your years of support?)

I went to the British GP last year - paid out for tickets for two, spent money in the track's "retail opportunities". All in all a very expensive day in order to watch men in multicoloured leathers go round in circles... It was fun - you know I'm not denigrating the racers, but at the end of the day, that's all it is. I expect to go again in the coming season and, hopefully, get away to a European race.

Very expensive. I don't think a few free bits of footage is much to ask for this degree of support.

[chunder]

Agreed, and when you think how much money DOrna are making out of the fans and from merchandise (anyone who has seen some of the truly awful MotoGP merchandise must be staggered at the crapness of it) it just smacks of greed.

I dont mind paying for a service if it is worthwhile but I tried the Dorna site and for the omney you get a few video clips of stuff you have seen already, some interviews conducted largey in foreign language and very little else, again if you wanna pay for that mate off you go.

But putting clips on the web is FREE advertising, the clips have the site name in the corner, i mean if you are that sad that you expect people to pay for clips of testing then there is something clearly wrong!

[jhansen]

This is an interesting topic indeed. I can see both sides really. I understand that there are costs to be covered. And that subscribers shouldn't have to pay for something while others get it free. In my mind, maybe this is more applicable to race weekend footage.

On the other hand, I doubt that the Dorna people are going hungry. The additional exposure at places like Youtube can only benefit the sport, teams and sponsors. In fact, I'm sure the sponsors would love it. And it is just testing. Why follow the Formula 1 model? Let's be different. The sport needs to grow and not be exclusive.

I'd like to see Dorna make the testing footage available to the public along with the practice footage from race weekends. Perhaps keep qualifying, race footage, and interviews as a subscriber feature. A good compromise.

[429CJ]

And MotoGP official website is down - again.
How original.

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by 429CJ

And MotoGP official website is down - again.
How original.

Yeah, I noticed that. They picked a good time to do scheduled maintenance.

[nihil]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Dave is basically right - when you own the copyright to something, you are completely within your rights to stop people viewing it for nothing.

Maybe you are within your rights, but you're not being very sensible... Real world economics means you have to throw us dogs a bone often enough to keep us interested. Make us pay for everything and we go elsewhere.

The MotoGP grid is fairly thin as it is and with tobacco sponsorship on the edge of extinction (alcohol next?), and all kinds of moral and ethical debate around the issue of carbon dioxide emissions, Dorna will need a strong supporter base to survive the coming years. Its a fans market. Frankly, we can demand whatever we want.

[Hazza]

Originally Posted by nihil

Maybe you are within your rights, but you're not being very sensible... Real world economics means you have to throw us dogs a bone often enough to keep us interested. Make us pay for everything and we go elsewhere.

Nope, no you don't.

They have it, and if you can't get it for free, you've got to pay for it. Works for them, works for everyone else. Just dosen't work for you because you can't, or won't pay for what they provide you.

Plus they have the monopoly on live Qualifying, Practice (On occasion) and Race streaming for people without accsess to Cable TV. As I said, works for them.

[nihil]

Originally Posted by Hazza

They have it, and if you can't get it for free, you've got to pay for it. Works for them, works for everyone else.

Clearly doesn't work very well for Kenny Roberts' team....

[Erki]

Is it allowed for people on grandstands to film the test/race/practice and load it on youtube?

I read somewhere that in thw WRC, (private) teams can't put videos from onboard cameras on the internet because it's not allowed or something like that. And the cameras are owned by the teams, not FIA/ISC/Co...

[nihil]

Originally Posted by Hazza

Plus they have the monopoly on live Qualifying, Practice (On occasion) and Race streaming for people without accsess to Cable TV.

More seriously, this is precisely my point. They have the monopoly on something that can hardly be described as a necessity to life. Make it too restrictive and too expensive, then even if people can pay, they'll transfer allegiance to something else.

MotoGP enjoys a healthy degree of support at the moment (except from sponsors... but that's for the other thread...), but its largely due to certain trends. F1 is boring, so some support has leaked over because the last couple of seasons in MotoGP have been gripping. Ducati is a very fashionable brand, even amongst people who couldn't tell a 1080 from a tube train. Valentino is just so charismatic - an articulate and intelligent sportsman (a rarity...). All of this could change in a season.

To presume that anyone has to pay for something is nearly always wrong.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Erki

Is it allowed for people on grandstands to film the test/race/practice and load it on youtube?

At UK circuits, & I would assume it's the same everywhere else, the conditions of entry specifically ban filming or photography for anything other than private use without the circuit owner's permission.

[nihil]

Originally Posted by nihil

....even amongst people who couldn't tell a 1080 from a tube train.

WTF is a 1080?! 1098 you stupid boy...

[JimW]

Originally Posted by chunder

Oh dear, what you fail to realise is that this footage is of testing!! its of no great importance really.

And these people and you clearly have never had to work in a PR environment where any kind of exposure is good!

I will say one thing for Dorna and that is that they have the heart to let people see older footage, its just 2007 footage that they wont let you see!

. . .

If the footage is of no importance, then why are you getting worked up about it? It is their intellectual property and they are entitled to do what they want with it. YouTube is great fun but will be squashed flat if it continues to trample over people's copyright entitlements.

The argument that Dorna might gain PR benefits from allowing a controlled release of some footage is a different one. You at least have an argument over the wisdom of that decision.

Regards

Jim

[chunder]

Regards!

The only reason I was amazed at the pompus attitude of Dorna was that the footage was simply testing. I didnt mean it was of no importance to me!

I like to keep up with what the bieks look like, sound like and if the riders are doing anything different with their gear, sponsors etc.

For instance I ahve noticed that John Hopkins appears to have lost Red Bull sponsorship this year, and Valentino appears to ahve acquired sponsorship from a chicken (thos who ahve read Vale's book will understand!!)



Was just posting a thread on a forum that was all, and it gave some good debate! And if you notice a very split opinion about what people think about this.

Amazingly it is mainly Brits that are all stuffy about copyright, says it all really!

[Knowlesy]

It is a subject dear to some people's hearts, it must be said.

Everything must be clamped down on. People must not share footage of anything ever. We must live in a darkened world of misery for all of time. Do not smile, or we are all dead.

Of course, copyright is relevant for a lot of things. But an innocent test being shown on youtube is hardly killing anyone is it?