Should Martin Whitmarsh stand down

FastDB2s · 13 Oct 2012, 09:10 (Ref:3150785)

Now that the **** stirrer is off to Merc, should MW stand down as it appears to me that he may not be the best for the job or team seeing as he just let LH get on with anything he wanted to do with no disciplinary action at all.

Should they put the sweeper up as engineer to LH seeing as no one at McLaren wants him to walk away with the covetted no 1 on his car.

Most companies would see LH off the premises the same day after signing a contract for a job at another employer, then promote an understudy seeing as LH has no loyalty & will gather every secret up & take it with him !

Edit: autocensor is there for a reason.

wolfhound · 13 Oct 2012, 09:26 (Ref:3150796)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastDB2s

Now that the **** stirrer is off to Merc, should MW stand down as it appears to me that he may not be the best for the job or team seeing as he just let LH get on with anything he wanted to do with no disciplinary action at all.

Should they put the sweeper up as engineer to LH seeing as no one at McLaren wants him to walk away with the covetted no 1 on his car.

Most companies would see LH off the premises the same day after signing a contract for a job at another employer, then promote an understudy seeing as LH has no loyalty & will gather every secret up & take it with him !

I don't see why Martin Whitmarsh should leave over a driver that does not want to be there. There is a lot more to his job than looking after every whim of a driver, after all he needs to ensure that his drivers have a fast car and that the money is there to build it.

If you compare his situation to soccer look at how many top players Alex Ferguson has let go over the years and his team still wins.

If the car is good enough the any top driver shouild be able to win with it but it is much more difficult for a driver to win with a slow car.

Flavio Galtieri · 13 Oct 2012, 09:38 (Ref:3150803)

I can't see there's anything to be gained by not allowing Hamilton to have the best possible car for the last few races. They will be heavily focussed on next year's car now anyway so anything they learn from his data could be valuable.

I doubt Lewis will be in quite as many post race debriefs however and certainly unlikely to be involved any more other than on a need to know basis. That's normal though surely with anyone under notice?

I can't see what Whitmarsh has got to be sorry for personally. He appears to have acted in the best interests of his team and I think Lewis had made his mind up long ago.

chunder · 13 Oct 2012, 09:40 (Ref:3150804)

Crazy point, Whitmarsh is a very good team boss, he comes across very well and has also been very instrumental in stopping a lot of the bickering and rubbish that went on in the pitlane for years, he and Domenicali in particular have managed to calm a lot of this down, despite issues over possible rule issues.

McLaren are still one of the best teams, they have not gone backwards and if anything have closed the gap on Red Bull and pulled away from Ferrari. If anything they have the most consistent car.

Their management of Lewis has been hard work, but I fear that is mroe to do with this cretinous management group around Lewis than anything else I believe. They are used to dealing with footballers and the like and in F1 that sort of stuff is garbage.

They matched Mercedes offer and made a better one, if Lewis wants to leave one of the best teams in F1 to drive a new car then fair enough, what can you do?

I think in Perez they have a good driver, maybe the car now might go Jenson's way, if that way is enough we will see, but to ask for Whitmarsh's head is plain rubbish.

Unless you are a Hamilton fanboy!

FastDB2s · 13 Oct 2012, 10:52 (Ref:3150829)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunder

Unless you are a Hamilton fanboy!

Not at all.
Just a point that McLaren have not had their best run under Whitmarsh, poor pitstops, poor strategies, LH problem that has been there all along which I admit that MW has dealt with, these have been there over the last few years of which MW has had control, not much before that.

I think it was better run when it was largely under control of Ron Dennis whom LH & others got to stand down even though its his company.

They have gone slightly backwards as 'the finger' is getting stronger with every race.

MW hasnt got anything to be sorry for personally equally its a long time since they won a championship.
I didnt say there was anything wrong with the car in my 1st post.

Difference between SAF is they wont play again if he falls out with them, just wait until the transfer window.

Mr V · 13 Oct 2012, 11:01 (Ref:3150834)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastDB2s

I think it was better run when it was largely under control of Ron Dennis

McLaren didn't win anything under Ron between 1999 and 2008, so where is the difference?

JeremySmith · 13 Oct 2012, 13:12 (Ref:3150896)

I don't think Martin Whitmarsh should stand down at all...

Lewis has decided to go a different route, not Martins fault IMO...

Spritle · 13 Oct 2012, 13:20 (Ref:3150899)

Who cares about Lewis Hamilton...

Martin can now focus his attention to grooming Perez and supporting Jenson whilst smiling at LH's 10th position finishes at Mercedes.

**Bononi** · 13 Oct 2012, 14:04 (Ref:3150910)

Now is MW fault...

GolddustMini · 13 Oct 2012, 14:58 (Ref:3150933)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastDB2s

Most companies would see LH off the premises the same day after signing a contract for a job at another employer, then promote an understudy seeing as LH has no loyalty & will gather every secret up & take it with him !

no they wouldnt, lewis hamilton has a contract which will extend to atleast the end of the race in brazil if not slightly longer (some contracts will extend to 1st of january dependant on what has been agreed).

its exactly the same as having a fixed term contract in any other job, you work until the end of the contract, regardless of what you have "lined up" after the end of it. McLaren would be in breach of contract if they were to tell hamilton to sling his hook and there would be no point in showing him the door, firstly for the financial penalties involved (see Vejay malya for that) and secondly, winning the championship is worth more than having number1 on your car the following year.

JohnSSC · 13 Oct 2012, 15:26 (Ref:3150950)

Outstanding! Now Whitmarsh is to blame for Lewis acting immaturely and burning his bridges at Mc by doing things like posting telemetry on twitter. I suppose he called Brawn & Company and encouraged them to offer Lewis all of the $$$ as well.

Surely Lewis cannot possibly be responsible for any of this...

Personally, I blame Sam Michael. Ever since he got to Mc Lewis has been acting even more silly than before - that MUST be it!

JohnSSC · 13 Oct 2012, 15:28 (Ref:3150951)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GolddustMini

no they wouldnt, lewis hamilton has a contract which will extend to atleast the end of the race in brazil if not slightly longer (some contracts will extend to 1st of january dependant on what has been agreed).

its exactly the same as having a fixed term contract in any other job, you work until the end of the contract, regardless of what you have "lined up" after the end of it. McLaren would be in breach of contract if they were to tell hamilton to sling his hook and there would be no point in showing him the door, firstly for the financial penalties involved (see Vejay malya for that) and secondly, winning the championship is worth more than having number1 on your car the following year.

I think that a cursory review of the History of Contracts in F1 would reveal that the "Sanctity of the Contract" is a rather foreign concept there...

JohnSSC · 13 Oct 2012, 15:29 (Ref:3150952)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

Now is MW fault...

I am sure Massa was involved somehow.

**Adam43** · 13 Oct 2012, 19:04 (Ref:3151066)

In answer to the thread opening post. No.

It rarely happens that a driver is sacked after announcing a change to another team. It seems that they can operate with a degree of honour not understandable to others. The impact can be mitigated too.

Will McLaren try to lose the championship because of it. No, they will still try to win it. They get more benefit than the team who inherits the driver. Again, not everyone is vindictive enough to spite their own face.

JohnSSC · 13 Oct 2012, 20:32 (Ref:3151108)

Seriously, I cannot imagine a scenario where McLaren would ever give up on winning the WCC or the WDC.

**Adam43** · 13 Oct 2012, 20:51 (Ref:3151115)

When the suggestion is made it comes across as if made from a comfy chair.

Mr V · 13 Oct 2012, 21:08 (Ref:3151126)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Seriously, I cannot imagine a scenario where McLaren would ever give up on winning the WCC or the WDC.

Neither can i, that said, if both Jenson and Lewis are out of the hunt with a few races to go, McLaren won't want Lewis knowing about parts for next years car, so i can see him being restricted and ultimately ending up behind Jenson in the standings at season's end (if those new bits prove successfull!)

Greem · 13 Oct 2012, 21:30 (Ref:3151141)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

When the suggestion is made it comes across as if made from a comfy chair.

When did Cardinal Fang subscribe to this forum?

**Adam43** · 13 Oct 2012, 21:50 (Ref:3151152)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greem

When did Cardinal Fang subscribe to this forum?

Nobody expected him to.

**Born Racer** · 13 Oct 2012, 22:00 (Ref:3151156)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritle

Who cares about Lewis Hamilton...

Martin can now focus his attention to grooming Perez and supporting Jenson whilst smiling at LH's 10th position finishes at Mercedes.

Hmm, you say that, but what about the difference a driver like Hamilton makes over an inconsistent driver like Button (and possibly Perez).

Re: Martin Whitmarsh, none of us here have the foggiest what exactly he does and how well he's doing at that. I don't think us armchair 'experts' (emphasis on the inverted commas) are in a position to make such rash calls. It's like the people who called for Domenicali's head after Abu Dhabi 2010. Anyone would think they were in a position to call him out on his failings despite knowing little about his job.

Paradise City · 13 Oct 2012, 22:23 (Ref:3151161)

Instability and musical chairs in the team principal throne shredded Ferrari back in the day. These big teams don't want that.

Marbot · 13 Oct 2012, 23:58 (Ref:3151218)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

Neither can i, that said, if both Jenson and Lewis are out of the hunt with a few races to go, McLaren won't want Lewis knowing about parts for next years car, so i can see him being restricted and ultimately ending up behind Jenson in the standings at season's end (if those new bits prove successfull!)

Not a chance!

JB has next seasons Merc engine in his car.

Knowlesy · 14 Oct 2012, 06:48 (Ref:3151330)

Whitmarsh has surprised me with his management. I think he is very good.

I liked Ron Dennis, but he was too stuffy and restricted and paranoid. Not a great atmosphere for drivers really, or indeed relations with other teams.

Whitmarsh gives his drivers a bit of freedom. They are adults after all.

The issue McLaren have is building a consistently quick car. Since the regs changed in 2009 they haven't managed it.

Mr V · 14 Oct 2012, 10:04 (Ref:3151468)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Whitmarsh has surprised me with his management. I think he is very good.

I liked Ron Dennis, but he was too stuffy and restricted and paranoid. Not a great atmosphere for drivers really, or indeed relations with other teams.

Whitmarsh gives his drivers a bit of freedom. They are adults after all.

I agree. The same can be said of Stefano too. The current McLaren and Ferrari teams live in harmony. It seemed that "back in the day" Ron Dennis and Jean Todt's sole focus was to not get on at all.

**John Turner** · 14 Oct 2012, 10:12 (Ref:3151474)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Hmm, you say that, but what about the difference a driver like Hamilton makes over an inconsistent driver like Button (and possibly Perez).

Am I missing something here? How consistent has Lewis been over the last 3 seasons? This is not a criticism of LH, more an observation.

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