Was Prost a 'Racer'

[BootsOntheSide]

A discussion about this point started in teh JPM/Sato thread, started when Peter Mallett listed Prost alongside Senna and Mansell as an aggressive 'racer'.

Not by my definition. He was a fast and smooth driver, extremely astute tactically and great and set-up and development, and that's what made him a champion.

I feel that, when it came to actual wheel-to-wheel split-second stuff he was less aggressive and generally less exciting. In France 1991 he was outfoxed by Mansell, he avoided racing in the wet where possible, and frequently lost more time to backmarkers than Senna.

Peter re-argued his point in the thread, Deeks6 joined in as well, but I was wodnering what the wide opinion is.

[Kicking-back]

If Prost wasn't a "racer" yet managed four world titles and fifty-one Grand Prix wins, then I wish I wasn't a "racer" either.

Alain was actually not against racing in wet conditions - what he objected to was the lack of visibility.

After being involved in the accident at Hockenheim 1982, I think that is totally understandable.

You cite one incident of Prost being "outfoxed" yet in their time as team-mates, Alain more than had the measure of Nigel.

Throughout his lengthy career Alain demonstrated "racing" instint on a healthy number of occasions.

But in an era which was often about making the finish - in cars much less reliable than today's - Alain's approach was much more sensible than trying to win the race in the opening laps, root the tyres and run out of fuel.

He was also the driver Ayrton Senna respected more than any other competitor.

[Peter Mallett]

Actually I don't think I put the word "aggressive" in that post. I did say he was a racer though.

He took championships against much more powerful machinery (the Porsche turbo wasn't that powerful). He was certainly careful and picked his moments. But if you believe the stories he drove into Senna deliberately in 1989 and that would count as aggressive wouldn't it?

[frederick]

I can remember watching Prost in races in the 80's on the teev and being driven to the point of yelling at him to "have a go ya bloody Chauffeur" because he would follow an opponent for lap after boring lap until he wore them down and won after they wore out the tyres or made a mistake

He was the smoothest of the smooth and this made him appear unspectacular, his technique was to decide on a race pace and stick to it and sail-on serenely while everyone else fell by the wayside, maddening to watch sometimes.

Most of the time it worked because he was also FAST but I can't for the life of me remember him in a wheel to wheel battle for position

So as a Racing Driver he was one of the greats as a "Racer"
(aka Crazed Loon?) probably not

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
He took championships against much more powerful machinery

Maybe in 1986, thanks to a combination of circumstances. But in 1985 his rivals were a fading Ferrari, a disinterested team-mate, a Williams team who didn't get it together until mid-season, and a Lotus team with shameful reliability (Senna actually led more laps than anyone that year, in his first season in a front-running car). In 1989 he and Senna had a huge advantage (and it was 1-1 between them), and in 1993 the Williams was well-nigh unbeatable in the dry.

In terms of aggression I think most of his contempories are ahead of him (Senna, Mansell, Rosberg, Gilles, Piquet), but beign teamed with Lauda in 1984 tought him a lot - it might've been better for F1 viewers if he hadn't learnt it, as races won by Prost were usually the least satisfying.

[climb]

Prost not a racer?
When I remeber of, say races like Mexico 1990, It's hard to me to hear such opinions and keep serious.

I remember that when young he was way more aggressive, but ho screwed up many races, therefore it's natural that, with experience, he would get more savvy, and earn his famous surname "Le Professeur".

[ghinzani]

I'd go for Belgium 86 - he drove a bent car like the wind. It was literally like a bannana after a first lap shunt.

[Knowlesy]

He was a good racer obviously.....four world titles and all that.

But a balls out, on the edge racer he certainly wasn't. Simply very clever, and a master tactician. Makes Ross Brawn look thick in comparison.

[Spudgun]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
You cite one incident of Prost being "outfoxed" yet in their time as team-mates, Alain more than had the measure of Nigel.

Only because Ferrari at the time couldn't field two reliable cars. It was Mansell who had all the development parts stuck on his car and it very often went bang. Whereas Prost's car put him in a position to have a shot at the title.

If Mansell's car was working better than Prost's he had to hand it over. Also, Prost was allowed to see Mansell's data, not vice versa.

Prost was a political driver, who could be very underhanded to get what he wanted. After he was sacked by Ferrari in 1991 he could see how strong Williams were at the time and tried to prise Nigel out of his seat for 1992!

As you can probably tell, I didn't like him much but he was fast and knew how to work situations which he used to great effect to get the job done.

[Knowlesy]

I pretty much agree with what you say there Spudgun, as a Mansell fan myself!

Prost really got up my nose with his almost tragic politics. I'm surprised he still had a reputation after what he did at times.

Great champion but in my eyes, slightly tarnished in a way not too dissimilar to a certain German superstar.

[NiceGuyEddie]

In my recollection Prost is a very, very good racingdriver, but by no means a true racer. It perhaps showed best in 1993 when he lined up in a mighty Williams Renault against Senna in his somewhat humble McLaren Ford. Take Donington for instance. Prost didn't do anything there. Imola same thing. Prost and Senna where 'battling' it out, or better yet, Senna was taking on Prost. Of course Senna didn't stood a chance, but he fought it all the way through, including denying Prost while staying on the outside of Tamburello. I believe Prost finally got the better of Senna by putting his rightfoot down on the stretch between Tosa and Piratella. Then there was Silverstone. Again, Senna fought a lost battle, and took some risk going into Abbey. After the race Senna described it as a nice battle. Prost only complained about it. At Brazil that year, he spun out in the wet, but in all honesty, he wasn't the only one.

As mentioned correctly, he gave way to Mansell without putting up a fight at Magny Cours 1991, and when he tried to be aggresive, he screwed up, as we saw at Hockenheim that year.

It apperantly just wasn't his nature to take on another driver in a head to head to duel, let alone win such a duel. Prost got his advantage from controlling the circumstances, which is pretty much what Michael Schumacher makes so great today (all though I believe MS is a better racer, but even MS is not the posterboy for an agressive, attacking driver in my book. If anything, MS defends somewhat agressive.).

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by Spudgun
Only because Ferrari at the time couldn't field two reliable cars. It was Mansell who had all the development parts stuck on his car and it very often went bang. Whereas Prost's car put him in a position to have a shot at the title.

If Mansell's car was working better than Prost's he had to hand it over. Also, Prost was allowed to see Mansell's data, not vice versa.

Prost was a political driver, who could be very underhanded to get what he wanted.

Depends who you believe.

Prost's side of the story is that this is all simply Nigel's paranoia.

[ghinzani]

Perhaps later in his career he became more circumspect, but you cant argue with the way he did over Arnoux in 81 and 82, and Rene was the racers racer at that time.

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide

In terms of aggression I think most of his contempories are ahead of him (Senna, Mansell, Rosberg, Gilles, Piquet),

Alain won more races and titles than any of them - and that's what he was there for.

[JAG]

Those interested in Prosts racing skills may like to check out the Imola FIA GT race later this year. Prost will be driving a works Maserati MC12 GTS car, in preperation to running his own team in 2005.

[Jaxs]

Prost..... astute.. technically clever... well .. he lived by the motto .. to win, first, you have to finish.

His dogged and almost 'geekish' ability to stay just far enough away from the leader .. not to challenge but make his presence known.

The tales out of Ferrari, Prost lived in the south of France, Mansell lived in the Isle of Man, the travelling time meant that Mansell left first... allowing Prost to tamper and sort his car from Mansell's ... tried and tested parts...

The Maestro..... hmmm.. sorry, not in my book.... all out slip and slide, full throttle and go for broke...... Not our Alain. Consider the total number of races and the finishes .... Political animal....... well, he was french...

[Kicking-back]

Suzuka 1987 was a good indication of Alain's aggression.

[Bononi]

A racer for sure !

Just let you remember one little thing and you can measure how much he was a racer...

There was one and only one driver Senna feared all the time. It was Prost. He only could master the flying lap, when his guru, convinced him that the only driver he had to surpass was himself and not Prost.

If you don't believe it, read Nuno Cobra's book about Senna.

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Suzuka 1987 was a good indication of Alain's aggression.

That was after the title was lost. Adelaide 1989 says a lot more - how do you think people who turned up to see the World Champion race felt when he pulled out?

As for winning more races, think how many more Senna would've won were it not for Imola, or Mansell if he hadn't've had 3 years of mediocre machinery 88-90, and left Williams in an unsatisfactory way post-92. Raw statistics can't prove anything, and once oyu look at the races in detail it seems like he won most through tactics, stealth, cunning, planning and at times luck.

[Tweed]

I think Suzuka 1989 wasn't typical of Prost, it was out of character, if totally understandable

[300kph]

Prost was a "maestro" of the race tracks at his peak and for me he was one hell of a racer...

[Tweed]

Originally posted by 300kph
Prost was a "maestro" of the race tracks at his peak and for me he was one hell of a racer...

exactly. We've all heard Jo Ramirez say that when Alain was on form even Senna couldn't touch him.

A lot of this 'racer' image comes about due to things such as a driver's age and even nationality. Years before Senna/Prost at McLaren it was Prost the charger and Lauda the 'methodical, thinking driver.'

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by Tweed
I think Suzuka 1989 wasn't typical of Prost, it was out of character, if totally understandable

I said 1987.

He had a problem on the first lap, lost a lot of time and dropped to last.

He then charged his way through the race, setting fastest lap after fastest lap.

Didn't get into the points - but if he wasn't a racer, he could've just cruised that day as there was nothing to gain.

[Tweed]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
I said 1987.

no, I know that, I think someone earlier on mentioned 1989, I'm too young to remember 1987!
I read about it on a Fifth Column a couple of years back, though

[Kicking-back]

No worries!