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Old 8 Jan 2008, 10:47 (Ref:2101730)   #1
IAN #51
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IAN #51 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Triumph a Great British Sports Car ?

On a recent visit to the Heritage Race Series web site they were running a poll on the best British sports car brand there were some truly great names including MG and Aston Martin but not Triumph.As a Triumph enthusiast i was slightly suprised by this ommision and though i would gauge the opinion of my fellow 10 tenthers.

My own thoughts are that any of the TR range (with the possible exception of the 7) were worthy of being classed as great British Sports cars along with the GT6 and possibly the Spitfire (although the Spit was classed as a hairdressers car i belive in the 70s) your thoughts please!

Ian
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Old 8 Jan 2008, 13:57 (Ref:2101860)   #2
SidewaysFeltham
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SidewaysFeltham should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSidewaysFeltham should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSidewaysFeltham should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Ian:

I cut my driving teeth on a TR2, on the early Michelin Xs. There was no upper speed limit in those far off happy days before the world and his wife started cluttering up the roads with their plastic bumpered monstrosities!

It taught me how to drive! In particular, how to go sideways under full power in the wet without coming off the island. Those early Xs were totally unforgiving: they clung like limpets and suddenly let go. Exciting.

Hence the sobriquet...............................

Yes, it was agricultural, with a girder type chassis and a ponderous 4 pot long stroke lump.

The TR3 and TR3A were better; classic English sports cars IMHO and with a signficant record in rallying and even circuit racing, which included Le Mans in the days where the great race was for standard (tweaked!) production sports cars rather than prototypes and then heavily engineered racers like Porsche.

Interestingly, my wife's cousin served his craft apprenticeship at Standard Triumph and had quite a bit to do with the early TR range: He's now 67.

I bought wife had a MK II Spitfire: ugly, clunky, quirky, yet she loved it.

Probably, the TR6 was the best of the bunch with the then ubiquitous to Triumph Lucas PI six cylinder 2.5 engine, as also used in the 2.5 PI saloon, a notable car of its era.

Personally, I rather liked the final iterration of the Vitesse which had the six cylinder lump, GT6 rear end - far superior to the frightening swing axle Herald! - and with overdrive on 3rd and top one had six gears, aided by the gear lever top thumb switch. Same as the early Saloon. I fantasized about dropping in a TR6 PI lump..............................

If one goes back further, the earlier Triumph Mayflower and Razor Edged saloons sat nicely alongside the wonderfully curvy tourer option, the roadster, originally 1800 c.c. later 2.2 L, last seen on TV as the chosen transport of John Nettles as the Jersey dick,

Back in the late 1920s and 30s sporting successes of Triumph were good: this was the era when names like Dolomite, Vitesse et al were coined.

Probably, Triumph enjoyed more rally success than race wins.

After the BL takeover (1960) of what had become Standard- Triumph in 1944 Lord Stokes waved his magic wand and ruined yet another great British motor company and its products.

The appallingly ugly and rust-ridden TR7 was a typical BL cobbled together attempt at a sports car.

No wonder BL vanished!

Worth recalling that most FJ and early F3 single seaters including Lotus and Brabham used Herald front suspension components, particularly the bottom trunnions. Awful parts!

For me, the TR2 and 3 stand amongst MGA and the early Healey (which of course was also 4 cylinder) as a great British sports car.
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Old 8 Jan 2008, 15:59 (Ref:2101940)   #3
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My mate had a Standard Vanguard that went surprisingly well in its day with a TR engine fitted(considering it was a tractor engine) and would keep up with the Zephyr / Zodiacs of the time. Don't forget all the "proper" Elan's used Herald front suspension as well. Why they bothered with not fitting a boot lid to the Standard 8 but did the 10 was a bit of a puzzle, as when it was made it couldn't have saved an awful lot ?. I totally agree with the last of the Vitesse's and a good one was a joy to drive.
Mentioning Michelin X they never used to wear out !

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Old 8 Jan 2008, 16:55 (Ref:2101995)   #4
SidewaysFeltham
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SidewaysFeltham should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSidewaysFeltham should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSidewaysFeltham should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Happy New Year, Gordon!

The Standard 8 was a utility car, vestigial trim and door handles, etc like the 100E Popular which even had a sort of square key to open the boot! Also fitted the old train doors and I found it useful for locking brides and grooms into their well decorated carriages! s well as opening the boot on the Pop!

The nice one was the Standard Penant (??) which had a forerunner to the Spitfire engine (twin carbs I think?) and wonder of wonders, a "Remote" gearchange! Moss ran one as his road car.

Some nice pics here: http://motorcargallery.fotopic.net/c683747.html

Yes, Vanguards were good cars: my later father had three. Had quite a good rally record, too including the Monte, which at that time of course, included driving all over the snow and ice in the Alps. Proper rallying.

On engines, the Healeys of course like the Jenson Intercepter 514 used an Austin truck engine! In fact all the BMC engines in the "B" and "C" ranges were lorry engines!

No the Xs didn't wear out, 'cos they didn't slide!

Lethal fitted to the early Renault Dauphine, too!

Still, as I said, they taught me how to drive: chuck the whole thing sideways before the corner and use the loud pedal instead of the steering.

Same, in fact, with the Herald: I had a few of those. Once again, chuck it sideways before the rear suspension "Jacked".

Last edited by SidewaysFeltham; 8 Jan 2008 at 16:58.
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Old 10 Jan 2008, 05:51 (Ref:2103151)   #5
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Hmm, I wonder why you chose your user name...

Ian, I agree with you & am not sure why Triumph would have been left off. I can only think that it is because they made more saloons - but then again MG made a few as well.
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Old 12 Jan 2008, 11:11 (Ref:2104662)   #6
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Originally Posted by john875
Ian, I agree with you & am not sure why Triumph would have been left off. I can only think that it is because they made more saloons - but then again MG made a few as well.
And so did Jaguar. Aston Martin, my favourite marque, made mainly GT cars which I've always regarded as almost a separate genre. I agree with Ian, too, Triumph is a very surprising omission.

The poll is here, by the way:-

http://www.heritageracingsupport.co.uk/
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Old 3 May 2008, 21:58 (Ref:2193426)   #7
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JohnD should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJohnD should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by SidewaysFeltham
Personally, I rather liked the final iterration of the Vitesse which had the six cylinder lump, GT6 rear end - far superior to the frightening swing axle Herald! - and with overdrive on 3rd and top one had six gears, aided by the gear lever top thumb switch. Same as the early Saloon. I fantasized about dropping in a TR6 PI lump..............................
SF,
You're confusing the Mk2 Vitesse with the Mk3 GT6.
The latter shared its swing-spring technology with the Spitfire 1500.
The Vitesse and GT6 Mk2s had the Rotoflex half shafts and cast-iron lower wishbone on the rear - worked, but heavy and expensive.
The swing-spring was a piece of inspired engineering, that transformed the swing axle, by giving it a transverse spring that was soft in roll, but harder in bump.

And six gears? O/d third was the same as ordinary fourth, give or take a cog. So really five.
I know, I'm an anorak.
I'll get m'coat.

But I've GOT a Vitesse with TR6 Pi power!
John

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Old 11 Jan 2009, 10:47 (Ref:2369279)   #8
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Hrrrumph. The TR7 had an awesome racing history with Group 44 & the numerous rally cars, & the "hairdresser" Spitfire was probably the most works raced Triumph of all taking its Le Mans campaign & extensive rallying into account.

Having owned a Herald, Spitfire & GT6 previously I much prefer my TR7V8 to all of them - on the road & the track. If the TR7 had been a V8 from day 1 & the Speke factory managed properly the TR may still be in production today - well maybe.

And no discussion about British sports cars is complete without including the full range of Triumph TRs!!
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Old 11 Jan 2009, 18:36 (Ref:2369526)   #9
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Originally Posted by TR7V8
Having owned a Herald, Spitfire & GT6 previously I much prefer my TR7V8 to all of them - on the road & the track. If the TR7 had been a V8 from day 1 & the Speke factory managed properly the TR may still be in production today - well maybe.
!
glad to hear i am not the only person who likes TR7's
Only problem is acording to this thread they will have all roted away before i can afford one/insurance for a V8
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Old 11 Jan 2009, 19:27 (Ref:2369544)   #10
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The fact that it attracts rust just further enhances its british sports car credentials. It wouldn't be British if it didn't rot!
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