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8 Apr 2003, 08:34 (Ref:562502)
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,168
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Could Alonso and Webber be disqualified?
So would Alonso and Webber's cars be deemed to be underweight?? How will they prove that they were over the min weight?
Is there a rule for post-race scrutiny after race finishes such as last weekend? |
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Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional. 
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8 Apr 2003, 08:38 (Ref:562506)
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#2 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2002
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Re: Could Alonso and Webber be disqualified?
Now this could be a legitimate question that should be asked and answered by the FIA!
Imagine any team running an underweight car and to avoid scrutiny, they could always crash the car after crossing the chequered flag. |
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more hors3epower
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8 Apr 2003, 09:06 (Ref:562515)
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#3 | |
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I'm sure that in national racing, any car that causes a red flag is automatically disqualified
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8 Apr 2003, 09:09 (Ref:562519)
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#4 | |
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But Webber didn't cause the red flag. There are just so many technicalities that could be applied.
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8 Apr 2003, 09:14 (Ref:562522)
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What if the race hadn't been red flagged, they would have been caught out.
Never been a problem before, i don't really see a problem now. |
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"The Great Race" 22 November 1960 - 21 July 1999
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8 Apr 2003, 10:25 (Ref:562608)
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#6 | ||
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Posts: 4,698
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There's been no sign of protest on weight grounds - but I could have seen (immaterial now of course) Alonso being DQ'd for failing to observe yelows correctly. In the past drivers who were involved in a secondary accident under yellows have (rightly) been severly repremanded and/or disciplined.
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DDMC Rescue Crew, Post Chief & Flag Marshal
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8 Apr 2003, 10:25 (Ref:562610)
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#7 | ||
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Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
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Do you really think we would'nt notice Michael or Kimi writing off their cars on every cool down lap?
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#Keepfightingmichael
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8 Apr 2003, 10:37 (Ref:562617)
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Quote:
It is a well known trick that if you go off while in the lead, it is important to place the car in a dangerous position on track. This can help bring out the red flag and stop the race. On countback, who wins??? Another trick that I know of is, if the weight is marginal, stick on the indicator and pull off because you've run out of fuel (which you haven't). Usually by the time you've been towed back to parc ferme, everyone is gone. It might also give your pit crew a chance to add weight to the car, driver load up a set of spanners in his pocket, etc... Another one is to pull off into the gravel trap. The gravel adds a little weight. While it might seem that no-one could posibly get away with any of these, you would be surprised!!! They have worked in the past (not for me). I just wonder what the outcome will be after Alonso and Webber at Brazil. Does anyone have ground for appeal on weight? |
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8 Apr 2003, 10:38 (Ref:562619)
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#9 | ||
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Apart from it being obvious if every car crashed after the chequered flag i think the teams would get quite sick of the repair bill after a few races.
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8 Apr 2003, 10:48 (Ref:562627)
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Join Date: Mar 2001
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I really think Alonso should be disqualified...other drivers made it though that mess because THEY OBSERVED the yellows and slowed down enough to avoid the debris Alonso was flying through there and cause the red flag...it is just stupid if he is allowed to be able to pick up points. Webber too should be disqualifed as he crashed of his own accord so why should he get points any moreso than M.Shumacher, Montoya, Button or any of those other drivers who crashed out??? The FIA really just need to use common sense instead of all these stupid rules IMO!!!
Last edited by TeddyG; 8 Apr 2003 at 10:56. |
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Doesn't it seem sad that drivers like Fisichella, Coultard, Barrichello, and Ralf all have secure seats in F1, despite having had race winning cars for many more seasons than Jacques, yet failing to chalk up as many wins as he (let alone a WDC) that it is Jacques who doesn't have a drive in F1??? Sad indeed.
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8 Apr 2003, 10:53 (Ref:562633)
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#11 | ||
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Have to say Teddy, I agree.
I've always been of the opinion that one more lap should be run (under the safety car) and that should determin the winner. |
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#Keepfightingmichael
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8 Apr 2003, 10:58 (Ref:562638)
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#12 | ||
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That not a bad idea Wrex. What happens if some is taken out by accident? JPM and Verstappen at Brazil 2001 or Panis and Firman 2003?
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__________________
Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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8 Apr 2003, 11:06 (Ref:562641)
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#13 | ||
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Too bad - they reason your out should'nt matter. If your out, your out.
If the race continued it would'nt matter, so why now? One more lap, then they are done. Simple really. I'm going to close my mouth now though, as there is probably a really good reason for it I have forgotten. |
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#Keepfightingmichael
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8 Apr 2003, 12:14 (Ref:562702)
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#14 | ||
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I agree that Alonso should be disqualified. Not to take away from his (until the crash) excellent drive, safety is paramount, and there is no reason for him to have had that big of a crash. I can understand running over debris... but not a wheel assembly at almost full speed like that...
I also agree with the idea of another safety-car lap or just plain disqualification of the cars involved in the red flag situation. In all of the classes I've raced, if you bring out the red flag and are out, you are scored behind everyone who finished. If you were involved in the accident but not eliminated, you go to the back of the cars still running. I just don't understand why this rule stands as it does... |
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Juliette Bravo! Juliette Bravo!!!!
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8 Apr 2003, 13:26 (Ref:562787)
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#15 | ||
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See they could actually just use the last time the leader crossed the line rule here. Those that crashed won't cross the line...so they are out and that way anyone taking the lead like Fisichella did would get to keep the win. Simple really.
Though I'm sure there's a loophole in there somewhere! |
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le bad boy
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8 Apr 2003, 13:30 (Ref:562792)
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#16 | ||
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Paulzinho: what if the accident happened in turn 1?
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Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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8 Apr 2003, 13:30 (Ref:562793)
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#17 | ||
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Nevertheless is this thread just hearsay or is there really a chance of them being disqualified?
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__________________
Doesn't it seem sad that drivers like Fisichella, Coultard, Barrichello, and Ralf all have secure seats in F1, despite having had race winning cars for many more seasons than Jacques, yet failing to chalk up as many wins as he (let alone a WDC) that it is Jacques who doesn't have a drive in F1??? Sad indeed.
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8 Apr 2003, 13:34 (Ref:562796)
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Quote:
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__________________
le bad boy
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8 Apr 2003, 13:42 (Ref:562808)
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#19 | ||
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I think the reason you're looking for Wrex is Senna-Nigel Adelaide.
However, the officials should be allowed to say 'extenuating circumstances' and count back a lap or two laps, and disqualify the 'agressive' party in the accident. |
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8 Apr 2003, 13:44 (Ref:562809)
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#20 | ||
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Hearsay, methinks. I think it was put forward as another possible 'grounds for protest' to right the wrongs of Alonso and Webber scoring points for that mess they made. But there have been no reports of teams lodging a protest with this or any other reasoning behind it... as the rules stand, the race is scored correctly. It is the rules that need to be changed...
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Juliette Bravo! Juliette Bravo!!!!
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8 Apr 2003, 13:45 (Ref:562810)
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#21 | ||||
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Quote:
Quote:
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__________________
Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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8 Apr 2003, 14:06 (Ref:562824)
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#22 | ||
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By waved yellow flags I probably should've used safety car boards (perhaps accompanied by the red flag to tell the drivers to stay in order?
And your right....theres loads of loopholes for everything! |
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le bad boy
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8 Apr 2003, 14:42 (Ref:562856)
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#23 | ||
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I certainly agree that you should have to be running at the finish to claim the points awarded for finishing position. ACO would agree - in fact, they now say that your final lap has to have representative pace so that the wounded don't go out and limp around to take the checkered flag...
Last edited by paul-collins; 8 Apr 2003 at 14:43. |
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8 Apr 2003, 15:19 (Ref:562876)
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#24 | |
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Not strictly related to the thread - but if anyone was using the fuel as ballast trick this scenario would be likely to catch them out... For example Kimi was about to do his last stop and might have been found light (he wasn't, so that proves either that it doesn't go on or that the likelihood of a curtailed race was thought sufficienty high not to risk it) (or, of course, that McLaren aren't at it).
Also, in really poor weather the extra weight would make less difference because it does at least give you extra mechanical grip. |
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8 Apr 2003, 15:38 (Ref:562893)
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#25 | ||
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Quote:
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