Negotiations Jos-Jordan have ended without agreement

[steve nielsen]

Originally posted by NiceGuyEddie
No I'm not. Im quoting a newsarticle in which Trust admits they have talks with Albers. Why would they if Albers wasnt of any interest for them? Albers is Dutch, is succesful at his game and is capable of luring thousands of fans to Zandvoort. This is huge potential.

As the offer is concerned, well, I think i was pretty clear on that one.

I'm not talking about the Albers thing, I meant everything about the Jos/Jordan negotiations.

[nkh]

Originally posted by steve nielsen
Jos and the sponsors have ended negotiations because Jordan could'nt give the guarantee they could finish the season, the could'nt even guarantee they would make it past the first 3 GP's.

Or maybe Jordan wouldn't guarantee that Jos would drive all 18 races for them. Seams logical that Jordan doesn't want to keep Jos if it turns out he isn't as good as they thought (they'll have to look back a couple of seasons to compare him to a 'known good driver', and he isn't getting any younger). And equaly logical that Trust doesn't want to tie their millions to Jordan if it turns out that Jos might only drive 3 races.

[Svend]

Originally posted by Bridget Stone
[B]With all due respect, thats a bit harsh. When i read the forum on the Verstappen-site, you can truly speak of "a nation in mourning". The last days the verstappen-site had about 300,000 (!) hits a day, so that must say something about the huge interest in Holland in Jos'future with Jordan.

Hey, I'm Dutch, I've travelled all across Europe with a big red white blue flag, been there, done that. It's just a simple recognition that this is just the end. Sad, but true.

Christian Albers will probably be the next Dutchman in F1, but he's too polished, too proper.

I think NiceGuyEddie will be gone for the first couple of days, suffering from a severe hangover celebrating this wonderful day on which a fellow countryman has left our beloved sport

[Skam85]

i dont kno why everyone has said this, because not long ago, negotiations between Ralf and Williams stopped. Doesn't mean he's not racing for them. Wait and see, i think personally its already a done deal between Jos and Jordan, they're going to announce when both drivers sign i think

[nkh]

Originally posted by Skam85
i dont kno why everyone has said this, because not long ago, negotiations between Ralf and Williams stopped. Doesn't mean he's not racing for them.

Right, because Ralf wasn't negotiating a contract with Williams for 2004. The negotiations was for a new contract for 2005 and 2006, so ofcourse he'll drive for them throught 2004. I don't really see how the two cases compare...

[steve nielsen]

The dutch TV reports that one of the other problems was that Eddie wanted to be able to fire Jos after 4 races if he did'nt perform:

so as long as Jos does'nt win one of the first 4 GP's, Eddie says he does'nt perform, keeps the money from his sponsors for the whole season and hires another driver with financial backing for the rewst of the season??

Trust and Muermans would'nt have a clause like that in the contract with Eddie beeing the only judge of that performance.

[steve nielsen]

Michel Peridon said in a Dutch newspaper today that the contract was to one sided and "not nice for Jos".

after reading the contract Jos did'nt feel welcome at Jordan and felth that they where only interested in his money.

the article also said that Jordan would'nt react on the situation with press oficer Helen Temple saying:"we are not commenting on negotiations as long as there is no deal with a driver"

[nkh]

That must be the first time dutch tv has listened to me

Still I wouldn't expect Jordan to make a contract with Jos (or any other pay driver) without a way of getting out if he doesn't perform. I don't know what Jordans perposal was but I'd suspect that they put some goals up (XX points in XX races, or "at leased as good as your team mate"), a "we'll tell you when you don't perform" would be ridiculous.

[Charlex]

Originally posted by Svend
Hey, I'm Dutch, I've travelled all across Europe with a big red white blue flag,

I though that the dutch flag was orange, white and blue... or you were wearing the french flag? ;-)

[steve nielsen]

the dutch flag:

[Wrex]

Originally posted by steve nielsen
after reading the contract Jos did'nt feel welcome at Jordan and felth that they where only interested in his money.

OMG steve!!!! Surely he did'nt need to read the contract to figure that out?????????? I'm sure your not even that naive. Of course they only wanted him for the money.


I must say, I'm pleasantly suprised. I thought this was a done deal (part of me still does).

Jos's sponsors did'nt like the terms, fair enough, its their money afterall. Jordan were'nt willing to negotiate on that and take the risk on Jos, I can understand that too.


This is no big deal anyway, Jordan will find another driver with some cash, and Jos, lets be honest, wont be a tragic loss for most F1 fans.

[Peter Mallett]

Jos who?

[chunterer]

I'd probably look at it this way.

On the one hand Dutch fans promoters and businesses want to keep Jos in F1 and he's half decent lets be fair, particularly in the wet.

On the other hand there's little point banging on about failed negotiations or pull outs on either side. Simple fact is that Jos can't expect to be in a position to call any shots in drive negotiations, no matter how much backing he's got because he hasn't got any performances or statistical clout to back him up?

Everyone will be aware what he said about not wanting to drive for Minardi again so he's effectively out on a limb!

I'll be sorry to see him out of work again, and reckon that McNish is now shoe in for the drive and hope he gets it...sorry Ralph, you deserve another go but one on one i'd say Allan is the quicker and more consistent of the probable B&H candidates

[Kicking-back]

Maybe B and H will up the cash and Jordan can get Firman and McNish.

McNish is an excellent driver and Firman will go a lot better now he has a year's experience behind him.

And both seem very professional and won't be bad mouthing the team if there are problems.

[EERO]

I think the more pressing issue is the viability of Jordan. I doubt the team will survive the season. Vestappen may have been able to bring money to the team, but it wouldn't have been enough to keep it afloat. I fully understand Trust and Muermann's unwillingness to sign on for the cost of a season's exposure and be guaranteed only 3 races.

Heidfeld and McNish will get the seats and both will be looking for work by April.

[Fogelhund]

McNish has apparently signed with Audi UK to do six races for them. I don't know IF this will affect the Jordan possibility, or if there is an outclause for Alan for this deal.

[Joe Machado]

Enough with Jos already. He is finished and thats that. Lets see what good old EJ can pull out of his hat. Major German sponsor with Heidfeld and a promise of a Merc engine for 2005? More money from B & H with McNish and Firman? He never does anything without an edge for him, therefore, he might come up with a good deal and surprise everyone. His bigger problem at this point is to come up with a car that performs.

[Testure]

Originally posted by steve nielsen
The dutch TV reports that one of the other problems was that Eddie wanted to be able to fire Jos after 4 races if he did'nt perform:

I think that's a pretty standard clause for every single F1 driver - "if we think you're rubbish, we can fire you without problems".

[Super Tourer]

These are Jordan's 2003 budget figures, to put some perspective into things.

Total $60M

Broken down as follows

B&H $20M
Bridgestone $6.8M (Cash and trade support)
Liqui Moly $1.55M (Cash and trade support)
Damaovo $1.2M (Cash and trade support)
Brother $0.5M - Cash and trade support)

Ford (Marketing) $7M
Drivers (Firman) - $5M
FIA Prize fund/benefits $13.5M

The remaining $5M made up of assorted trade/product support sponsors.

If we assume the FIA package, Bridgestone and Ford support continues at a similar level, that is an immediate 2004 budget of $27M.

As to the comments regarding the team completing the season, the whole point of the $12M 'one off' payment agreed as part of the new SLEC/GPWC, was to ensure that the 'minnows' did have sufficient funds to complete the season, otherwise the factory teams have to effectively make up the shortfall by running a third car.

This gives Jordan (by my reckoning) $39M, if B&H renew at the same level $20M this gives a 2004 budget of around $60M, before the funds from drivers and small sponsors are found to replace departing ones like Brother (for example).

Therefore, what we can reasonably 'account' for already equals EJ's 2003 budget, before drivers and small sponsor/race by race deals - so how that equals a budget for only 3 races/not enough to complete the year, is beyond me.

Even on a worst case scenario of B&H not renewing, EJ could reasonably expect to generate 50% of their budget from drivers.


Facts and figs from F1 Business.

[steve nielsen]

you are forgetting that that budget was 3 times bigger in 2002.......

[NiceGuyEddie]

Originally posted by steve nielsen
you are forgetting that that budget was 3 times bigger in 2002.......

So...?

Jordan doesn't want Verstappen even if it could save his team. No wonder Jos feels unwanted. He is unwanted.

[Super Tourer]

Which looks a suitable point to draw a line under this one. I think we have said all there is to say on Jordan and Jos. Until we hear something different of course...

Closed.