HANS devices in historic racing

[JRTM]

I am interested in this issue which is becoming a hot topic for historic cars. As a surgeon I have been looking at the scientific data in respect to the effectiveness of the device as well as the risk of a fatal cervical (neck) injury. The device is only partially effective - not protecting against lateral force for example - and the risk of fatal neck injury is statistically tiny.

Right now the FIA is planning a blanket introduction for the use of HANS even though their practical use in many forms of cars is very difficult and extremely expensive. At the same time none of the other available devices are getting a look in - why is this exactly? Even the F1 teams don't use commercially available HANS devices and use modified versions.

I see in the US only 50% of historic racers claim to be using HANS systems - what about here? Much less i am sure.

What do people think?

[terence]

My only thought,s are about how many neck injuries have there been in the last 50/60 years.These things are awfull to wear!

[JRTM]

In one analysis of early F1 racing ('66-72) in a seven-year period, in 224 crashes there were possibly only two cases where head and neck restraint could possibly have reduced the risk of head and neck injury, by preventing non-fatal concussion in impacts against earth banks. In this ear the speeds were only about 20kph less than today on average but the cars reflected todays historic vehicles of course.

this is important because another point is that the design and performance standards for presently-available head and neck restraints, and in particular those complying with the FIA and SFI requirements, are based on the design and construction of modern, stiff racing cars which incorporate several other protective measures. The inertial crash loads on the head and the neck will inevitably be higher than in the more compliant structures of the past, which had their own problems including the high risk of torso and limb injury.

so, the risk is low and the system being proposed may not be suitable.

[rogerwills]

Regardless of the risk being low, I think spending £500 or so on a device that MAY save you from spending the rest of your life in a wheelchair is money well spent. I will be wearing one this season.

[Eddy V]

My favorite topic!

Hans is wonderful, but like all devices it is only designed to work in certain area.
One main "must" is a decent seat, something that quite often is a problem in Historics. F1 uses designer seats and for all saloons you can buy a very good Hans compatible seat for a decent price.
However, for Historic or Classic single seaters, the seat or lack of it can cause a problem.
Hans + purpose built seat = very good.
Hans + normal seat = not too good, but can still work.
Hans + no seat or a moulded self made seat = very dangerous and it may be doubtfull if it will do its job properly.

Wonder how FIA is going to work its way around that problem.

[Peter Mallett]

I've just bought a new Hans and associated helmet. Actually I'm still waiting for them to arrive!

I run with an OMP ECO seat so I trust it will work.

My reasoning for buying it is that I need to earn for another couple of years so that I can retire disgracefully, therefore anything that reduces the chances of me being off work is a good thing.

[JFW]

My own view reflects that of John's.

the evidence relates to quite sp ecific impacts scenarios with the equipment installed in vehicles designed to recieve them [ie the belt angles correct and the range of movement managed.

I had a 'one o'clock' shunt at 70 plus mph not long ago and the 3 inch belts did their job perfectly.

I race many different types of car and each installation has to be bespoke.

I do not think the HANS will be suitable for most historics until its range of accepatble instalation has broadened.

Over to you Prof...........

[zefarelly]

IThe Willimans boy makes a good point, its not a universal piece of kit.

I'd much rather see some better seat specifications implemented at all levels, and belts, I see far too many very fast cars with crappy steel framed seats and 4 point harnesses . . .your far more likely to have a general shunt in a crap seat and 4 point, swallow through the belts and sustain internal injuries. or worse the seat brakes and or leaves its mountings

all of those things would render Hans ineffective anyway wouldn't they ?

I'd like to see how you fit HANS in a Lotus 18/22 ? or any other FJ or F500 for that matter

[Eddy V]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I run with an OMP ECO seat so I trust it will work.

The OMP Eco is not Hans compatible Peter, but you should not have much problems with it as it has a reasonable straight upper part. The only minor negative thing are the openings for the belt as they are not big enough (triangle shaped instead of square). So your belt may either be too low or too high for the fixing points on the rollcage.

Originally Posted by zefarelly

I'd much rather see some better seat specifications implemented at all levels, and belts, I see far too many very fast cars with crappy steel framed seats and 4 point harnesses ..... and sustain internal injuries. or worse the seat brakes and or leaves its mountings.

I'd like to see how you fit HANS in a Lotus 18/22 ? or any other FJ or F500 for that matter

Exactly my point of view Zef.

[Peter Mallett]

Zef a four point harness is perfectly adequate for us saloon types, like anything else it must be worn correctly. The mistake people make is to leave the lap belts loose, they have to be tight.

Also as I understand it the HANs comes in 3 off the shelf configurations. I asked the supplier which one I needed and I was advised to buy the 20 degs version.

As to crappy belts etc. that has also been legislated against because we now need FIA certified equipment.

[Eddy V]

Actually the Hans comes in 3 sizes (S / M / L) and 5 angles.
20° is the right one for saloons.

A 40° Hans may work for some Historic single seaters.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by EDDIE V

too high for the fixing points on the rollcage.

Um what fixing points on the roll cage? My belts go to the back of the car. I do sit reasonably high in the seat but my belts don't foul the openings.

[Eddy V]

Normally your belts are supposed to be fixed to the rollcage either looped around the crossbar behind the seat or fixed to an anchorage bolt when that is provided by the cage manufacturer.

See some more info
http://www.fia.com/resources/documen...HANS_Guide.pdf

[Peter Mallett]

Ah,

All ok I have them attached to a welded in section of rollcage between the rear uprights. I did this because the scrutes at Spa were making others do it. That said I do have a bar immediately behind the seat at the level of the belt openings so I could use that instead.

[zefarelly]

mine are through the rear bulkhead/parcel shelf, and come out virtually horizontal from my shoulders

[Eddy V]

I'll post a picture of one of our cars tomorrow how it is supposed to be. But you should be okay Peter.

[Marcus Mussa]

I have been wearing a Hans device in Historic Formula Junior for the last year. I would strongly recommend that everybody wears one and the sooner the better!
As others have said, it is important that the seats and belts are properly attached to the car, and the modifications that are necessary when preparing the car for Hans use are a good opportunity to review the arrangements. This includes the head rest.
Obviously Hans should only be used in cars with proper roll-over bars, and in general I would think it is only suitable for cars from class F (1961) onwards.
It is also important that the rear view mirrors are properly adjusted and give adequate vision as one of the things one can no longer do with a Hans is to turn one’s head to see if somebody is sneaking up on the inside going into the corner.
The belts must be kept very tight, and the Hans device makes this much more comfortable as it spreads the pressure (e.g. no more bruises on my collar bones from the shoulder belts).

I have not yet proceeded with a proper test of the device (!), and agree that in a head on collision in a historic car there are other potential risks that a Hans will do nothing to prevent. However I do not think it will do any harm. You only need to see the video showing what happens to your head and neck in an accident to be convinced!

Last year I had one accident, without actually hitting anything – I broke a drive shaft and came to a very sudden stop in the next corner when the wheel flew off. I was amazed that I had no pain at all in my neck afterwards, and I am sure that this is due to the Hans.

So yes, Hans, which fitted costs the same as a set of tyres, is definitely a good investment. I remember when I started racing (in 1967) I had a set of Dunlop overalls. I used to meet John Surtees quite regularly (this was in Canada) and one day he said I must get a set of Nomex overalls. I followed his advice although I did not particularly intend to set my car on fire. The same goes for full face helmets – when something is available that can save your life or protect you then you should not hesitate.

[Al Weyman]

Same old argument, thoe that have bought try to justify their investment by saying they are catagourically the Bee's Nuts with no real evidence, those that have'nt think they and especially the mandating of them just sucks.

I am happy to buy and wear that other less obtrusive device (which name escapes me at the moment) that the manufaturer reckons is just as good and if its not well thats my damned choice, I'm an adult I weigh up the risks and make my own decisions.

[Peter Mallett]

Al,

I think you might have missed the point. The HANS is tested to the FIA specs whilst the alternative isn't yet. I'm sure that at our level the risks are pretty minimal but as has been said above if you think its worth it then do it. Personally I don't want to be working for much longer so if I can make sure I do everything I can to maintain my current levels of salary (or more please) then I'll do so. I wouldn't be able to do my job if I'm disabled. FWIW the device and the new helmet has cost me less than two days pay. A comparitively small amount for a few years insurance.

That said (I really must stop using that phrase) if you don't have the cash then its an expensive outlay for a minimal return.

The choice is ours fortunately.

[Eddy V]

That is one of the ways to do it properly. We had no need to cross the belts, everything worked and fitted fine.

[Peter Mallett]

Great my belts are at a similar angle.

[jamesl]

Try and angle the belts at 45 degrees.

[Eddy V]

That is too much for the Hans system, see my post 13 (FIA link).

[Al Weyman]

500 a day Peter, thats good money, you wait till the next time you want stickers

[terence]

I agree Eddy 45deg is to much for hans but it is correct for no hans fitment.Who did the cage?