MSA licence renewal - Page 12

**dtype38** · 10 Mar 2007, 23:35 (Ref:1863398)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piglet

From my point of view the old licences worried me hugely - you got to stick your picture of it as many times as you want over a season - so how do I know that the person who turns up with Peter Mallet's licence with a picture on it that looks like the person signing on really is Peter Mallet and that he didn't just find the licence in the paddock and put his own picture on it and learn to fake the signature? It's one of the reasons why a number of clubs would make you leave your licence for the duration of your meeting even if you didn't want a signature so that if it was a bent licence and you (or any one else ended up in the med centre or worse) we could at least demonstrate that you had fruadulantly used the licence and that we hadn't been negligent in taking a licence that didn't match the person who signed on.

To be honest, I'm not overly convinced by that bit. How does the MSA know that the photo I sent them to put on my credit card licence is actually a photo of me? They've only got my word on it. I agree it's good that it can't then be changed during the year, but then nor can the copy of it on my new temporary licence.

tf01... no I'm not a Ludite (well mostly) and I do think that modern technology and equipment is an excellent thing. I'm happy for the NHS to computerise their records at huge expense so that if I fall ill in the back of beyond the local doctor can access my records. I'm a bit ambivalent about ID cards, but only because I think they'll cause as many problems as they solve, but perhaps a little inconvenience is worth the price for the benefits. What I can't understand, however, is what the MSA are doing it for, other than to be seen as being "modern" for the sake of it.

In the examples you gave (storing medical/injury history, endorsements, events attended etc) how is this information supposed to get onto the licence? Wouldn't that require every CoC, medical officer and official to have a card swiper to put it on there. If the info isn't put on at the actual event, then when would it be? You say "they need to start somewhere", but what would you think of a bank that issued everyone with a credit card, but no machines to put them into?

MGDavid · 11 Mar 2007, 00:44 (Ref:1863431)

Quote:

Originally Posted by falcemob

Why would they want to consult you. Did the DVLA consult you when the new licenses were brought in or did VOSA consult you when the MOT test was computerised, no. I would have thought the changes are for the MSA's benefit not ours.

Er, yes actually; both those government initiatives were subject of green papers or white papers, which anyone can access, read and comment upon.

midgetman · 11 Mar 2007, 09:12 (Ref:1863515)

The point tf01 is that if my car fails first time out, I've spent 2/6 (sorry, 12.5p to all you whippersnappers out there) of my own money on it, and it affects no-one but me.

I suspect the MSA have spent far more than that on a system that has fallen over the first time it's used. I repeat my comment, my licence was delayed in DECEMBER fer pete's sake. Was that a system failure out of their hands too?

Someone's head needs to roll...............but this country doesn't accept responsibility for wasting our money, so I doubt it will.

I actually like the new licences although I'm more than frightened about the thought of CoCs getting to write to it, there's been so many cock ups since utilities went computerised I just know it'll end in tears. As we don't have card readers, how do we know what's on there? How do we know the endorsements have been added to the right licence?

**Peter Mallett** · 12 Mar 2007, 14:56 (Ref:1864695)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piglet

From my point of view the old licences worried me hugely - you got to stick your picture of it as many times as you want over a season - so how do I know that the person who turns up with Peter Mallet's licence with a picture on it that looks like the person signing on really is Peter Mallet and that he didn't just find the licence in the paddock and put his own picture on it and learn to fake the signature?.

Frankly I've looked at some of my pictures and wondered who it was.

Piglet · 12 Mar 2007, 15:58 (Ref:1864749)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Frankly I've looked at some of my pictures and wondered who it was.

LOL!! Somedays the only high point about race admin is the driver's photo's

chezza · 12 Mar 2007, 16:22 (Ref:1864764)

Quote:

Originally Posted by midgetman

I actually like the new licences although I'm more than frightened about the thought of CoCs getting to write to it, there's been so many cock ups since utilities went computerised I just know it'll end in tears. As we don't have card readers, how do we know what's on there? How do we know the endorsements have been added to the right licence?

This is one thing that has got me (as a sec of the meeting)...they've bought in these nice shiney card licences, but have still had to issue a counter part for sigs/medical info/endorsements iirc...so why change to a card licence in the first place?!

Also I haven't been issued a card reader or any means of accessing the information on a licence (another way of doing this could be a secure website or somthing...but not all circuits have internet access)...so how do I know you don't have any endorsements or shouldn't be racing cos last week you were knocked out when racing and don't have medical clearance??

zefarelly · 12 Mar 2007, 16:23 (Ref:1864766)

I'm with Peter and Gordon . . .I was issued a fax, now a temp licence which expires before I need it.

Firstly I think ( and its only my opinion remeber) that the new licencing system is a very good idea, and needed to be done. BUT whatever the plan or pre production model or procedure or whatever, it hasn't worked. rather than nail the situation and sort it double quick the MSA seem to have caused more work and trouble for themselves by going the fax/temp route.

I really don't think the HTP has anything to do with it, thats largely because of laziness and compplacency of car owners hoping the problem would go away of its own accord !!! besides which, I'm sure car Inspectors and HTP officials don't do licencing anyway.

**BertMk2** · 12 Mar 2007, 16:37 (Ref:1864783)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezza

This is one thing that has got me (as a sec of the meeting)...they've bought in these nice shiney card licences, but have still had to issue a counter part for sigs/medical info/endorsements iirc...so why change to a card licence in the first place?!

When I got my temporary licence I got a paper form for sigs (that I have to stick a photo onto). Not sure if that's the long term solution or just another stop gap.

Also - why is my blue book coming when my proper licence does? Why couldn't they send that with my temporary one?

chezza · 12 Mar 2007, 16:53 (Ref:1864792)

Who knows bert...maybe they've run out?!

One thing thought that I've come up with is...why do the licences only run for a calendar year (jan-dec) rather than for 12 months from date of issue (eg if you pass ards in june)?! Surely that would save the huge rush the MSA experience every winter trying to process 35 thousand licences?!

**BertMk2** · 12 Mar 2007, 17:00 (Ref:1864801)

They get more cash if it's only Jan-Dec rather than 12 months

More likely it allows any licencing changes to run concurrent with any rule changes introduced for the year in the new blue book - the blue book runs Jan-Dec so it makes sense that the licences follow that pattern.

Piglet · 12 Mar 2007, 17:09 (Ref:1864817)

Chezza, your MSA steward will have a way of accessing some details. They can certainly check the level and validity of a licence, I can't entirely remember what else can be checked.

Talk to your Steward at the first meeting, I had a demo last year.

Piglet · 12 Mar 2007, 17:16 (Ref:1864823)

Sorry second post to say - Chezza, if it's not on the licence or the counterpart then you can't know about medical endorsments or excess points etc. (NOTE - I haven't seen any of the new licences or the counterpart card and I don't know what info is on them).

You can't therefore be negligent, all you can do is check the documents that are supplied to you and ensure that competitors comply with the Blue Book requirements as far as you are able to assess that given what the MSA require to be produced to you at sign on.

The competitor is responsible for signing the declaration to say that they abide by the rules which include a requirement that they are fit to drive and hold a valid licence.

It will make spotting the under 18's much easier and that was the problematic one as an under 18 signing the dec without a parent is invalid and that's a problem you should have spotted yet was in many cases almost impossible to spot.

Are your boys running at Brands on the 24th?

**Peter Mallett** · 12 Mar 2007, 17:20 (Ref:1864826)

Quote:

Originally Posted by zefarelly

I'm with Peter and Gordon . .

1965 World Without Love, got into the top ten..... oh waitl

Quote:

Originally Posted by zefarelly

Firstly I think ( and its only my opinion remeber) that the new licencing system is a very good idea, and needed to be done.

No problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zefarelly

BUT whatever the plan or pre production model or procedure or whatever, it hasn't worked. rather than nail the situation and sort it double quick the MSA seem to have caused more work and trouble for themselves by going the fax/temp route.

Exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zefarelly

I really don't think the HTP has anything to do with it, thats largely because of laziness and compplacency of car owners hoping the problem would go away of its own accord !!! besides which, I'm sure car Inspectors and HTP officials don't do licencing anyway.

Again I concur.

So we are faced with a situation where the MSA has done what it does every year and issued paper licencesl However these only last until early April thus they've duplicated the effort.

I hope whoever it was who sold them the system has good lawyers.

chezza · 12 Mar 2007, 17:25 (Ref:1864833)

Oooh I'll have to ask in April, thanks for that Piglet.

Yes my boys are out on the 24th and its all boys at the moment, we managed to have 3 girls on the grid at the november meeting though!

Piglet · 12 Mar 2007, 17:28 (Ref:1864837)

If you're at Brands with them make sure you pop in and say hello.

chezza · 12 Mar 2007, 17:29 (Ref:1864839)

Not sure if I'm going to be there at the moment, but I certainly will if I make it!

**Tim Falce** · 12 Mar 2007, 18:02 (Ref:1864875)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezza

This is one thing that has got me (as a sec of the meeting)...they've bought in these nice shiney card licences, but have still had to issue a counter part for sigs/medical info/endorsements iirc...so why change to a card licence in the first place?!

There are no sections on the upgrade card for endorsements and as I don't want to be bothered with upgrade sigs this year I won't be bringing the bit of card that is inserted in the Blue book with me to any races.
So, if I'm a naughty boy how will you give me one?

chezza · 12 Mar 2007, 18:26 (Ref:1864889)

You'd just better behave yourself...if not spankings will be issued...

**Peter Mallett** · 12 Mar 2007, 18:51 (Ref:1864911)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezza

You'd just better behave yourself...if not spankings will be issued...

Falcey, you lucky, lucky *******.

**dtype38** · 12 Mar 2007, 23:26 (Ref:1865191)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezza

You'd just better behave yourself...if not spankings will be issued...

You're supposed to hand out punishments, not rewards!

terence · 13 Mar 2007, 06:25 (Ref:1865321)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtype38

You're supposed to hand out punishments, not rewards!

Perhaps he thinks your a Hoodie

**Peter Mallett** · 13 Mar 2007, 07:04 (Ref:1865334)

Terence, I don't think she will be pleased to read your post.

***Chris Y*** · 13 Mar 2007, 09:44 (Ref:1865434)

Back to the topic at hand for a moment (I didn't think we'd be seeing talk of spanking in an MSA thread, but hey

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezza

Also I haven't been issued a card reader or any means of accessing the information on a licence

I get the feeling this is a 'transition' year. Credit-card style licence this year with counterpart - fully bar-coded or chip 'n' pin next year.

**Peter Mallett** · 13 Mar 2007, 09:51 (Ref:1865442)

You're probably right CHris which makes it even more sad that they rushed this through. Perhaps a sample of the total to be allocated the credit card in order to try the system out. Then as you say if it is a transitional year the full introduction could start from next year.

I wonder if the MSA has more licences to process than other ASN's?

**dtype38** · 13 Mar 2007, 16:24 (Ref:1865660)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Y

..... Credit-card style licence this year with counterpart - fully bar-coded or chip 'n' pin next year.

Wonder if we'll have to buy them like the proposed ID Cards. Either way, in my experience, these so called "more efficient systems" not only cost a lot to implement, but seem to have a depressing tendency of actually costing more to run as well. I'm sure the marketing people will point at the quality of the information, and the more modern image of the MSA as ample justification.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
MSA 2006 Licence	flagwaver	Marshals Forum	26	2 Jan 2006 19:03
BMMC renewal	pit bull	Marshals Forum	43	23 Nov 2004 13:20
MSA licence for bike racer?	graeme	Racers Forum	1	2 Aug 2004 11:54
Licence Tracking - MSA Website	Mark Mitchell	Racers Forum	25	4 Mar 2004 19:12
2003 MSA Marshals Licence	Steve Tarrant	Marshals Forum	81	13 Feb 2003 20:45