Code 60 for UK

[88racing]

I did think about hitting it but then thought better of it!

You have no idea just how slow 60kph is until you've driven all the way around Silverstone GP circuit at that speed! The two times it happened to me I never saw what caused it, so the Orange Army must have had sufficient time to remove/clear up without a trace left behind.

And I could even see the flags at night in the rain!

Chris #162

[rotation]

Originally Posted by Woolley

There were several close calls.

My bad. I was on my own and could only wave one yellow.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by 88racing

I did think about hitting it but then thought better of it!

You have no idea just how slow 60kph is until you've driven all the way around Silverstone GP circuit at that speed! The two times it happened to me I never saw what caused it, so the Orange Army must have had sufficient time to remove/clear up without a trace left behind.

And I could even see the flags at night in the rain!

Considering it's 40mph, dual carriageway speed, couldn't believe how slow it looked.

Chris #162

Originally Posted by rotation

My bad. I was on my own and could only wave one yellow.

No problem, don't think you could have done any more. It was in just the wrong place - completely out of sight on approach and right in the middle of the track. I got the impression everyone had slowed just enough to get around it.

On the plus side, I got on tele during that Code 60. Well, that's a plus for me!

[Chigley]

Please note that I am not going to making Code 60 flags following the issue of MSA reg Q.15.1.1 (e) introducing the option for the CoC to neutralise a race by this means. They would be too heavy and too complicated to make and I do not have printing facilities.
Ian Chalmers

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Chigley

Please note that I am not going to making Code 60 flags following the issue of MSA reg Q.15.1.1 (e) introducing the option for the CoC to neutralise a race by this means. They would be too heavy and too complicated to make and I do not have printing facilities.
Ian Chalmers

In all seriousness, if there was some connected thinking, oh wait, that's not going to happen!

The biggest cost to these flags will be getting the image produced (although I'd guess this DOES exist somewhere as code 60 flags are in existance) and the setup cost.

Could we dare imagine that MSA coordinated this setup, and allowed all clubs and us mere individuals to then order from that supplier?

No, thought not

[The Fat Clerk]

One issue I can see is that the new reg Q15.1.1(e) says:

.......................provided that all flag points are in communication with race control.

So that rules out how many circuits?

[JimW]

Almost all.

Jim

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

One issue I can see is that the new reg Q15.1.1(e) says:

.......................provided that all flag points are in communication with race control.

So that rules out how many circuits?

[The Fat Clerk]

That's what I thought, it's been a while since I've 'marshalled' but certainly as a Clerk we don't talk to the Flags apart from the 'big' meetings.

D

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

That's what I thought, it's been a while since I've 'marshalled' but certainly as a Clerk we don't talk to the Flags apart from the 'big' meetings.

I may have mentioned such a thing in the past, once or twice, including in this thread.

Originally Posted by Woolley

BUT. It needs good comms. At the 24 hours we had a decent radio system operated by people who knew what they were doing.

But then, we need decent comms anyway, so if this achieves that, I'm voting in favour.

The problem really is that there's no incentive for circuits to install a proper system, so we're left with a variety of systems ranging from acceptable to none.

[The Fat Clerk]

Which is one among many other reasons why some of us wont use the flag

[Greem]

No reason not to have it as an option though.

[The Fat Clerk]

True, true, but can you see someone like unreal Motorsport who run Mallory spending money on something that's nothing to do with their precious Motorbikes because I can't.

[Greem]

Well... I've done most of my recent trackside days with one club, who provide a radio per flag point regardless of circuit. If there's a post chief who isn't in easy contact with the flaggies, as at some parts of Silverstone, the flaggies get one too.

I know not every club runs like that but my experience of that particular club means the Code 60 will work with little or no adjustment.

The question of whether there are groups of marshals on any circuit who are out of obvious contact with race control is a discussion for another day

[Asp]

Originally Posted by JimW

Almost all.

Jim

Shorter list: Where will it work under "usual" practices (ie excluding where the club provides radios to flags as per Greem's example)?
I can think of Croft and Anglesey (subject to giving a listen-only radio to Banking In). I'm sure there are more, but don't think I've been there in years!!

[PabloTeK]

Originally Posted by Asp

Shorter list: Where will it work under "usual" practices (ie excluding where the club provides radios to flags as per Greem's example)?
I can think of Croft and Anglesey (subject to giving a listen-only radio to Banking In). I'm sure there are more, but don't think I've been there in years!!

Rockingham & Mallory have radios on every post...

[The Fat Clerk]

Mallory certainly didn't for the MGCC meeting this year, which is the only meeting I've done there. Doesn't alter the fact that I don't believe that the circuit will buy the flags.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by PabloTeK

Rockingham & Mallory have radios on every post...

I don't know about Rockingham, but at Mallory several flag points are some distance from the post.

[The Fat Clerk]

As they are at Sillystone, where some are on the opposite side of track!

[Woolley]

Presumably it's use, as with Safety Cars, is optional? It can be used where desired and practical, and not where those conditions are not met.

No reason, for instance, why a club hiring a circuit should not bring their own flags along with their own radio system. The proliferation of SZ/SC/FCY/VFCY boards that turn up at some meetings show this can be done.

I don't think there's an argument for marshals who 'won't use the flag'. If you do the duty, then you take on the requirements of that duty. I'm fairly opposed to the current 'everything waved, often double waved' system, and so have greatly reduced the number of meetings at which I will flag, but when I do, then I live with regulations which are in force at the time.

Of course, this could all be irrelevant. FIA seem to have decided they will start to enforce yellow flags in F1, and if that works then it might trickle down to the club level and we won't need any other means of controlling the race, just like in the old days. Of course, this may lead instead to a requirement for another flag which indicates the flying pig has been seen on circuit, but we can hope!

[The Fat Clerk]

No reason, for instance, why a club hiring a circuit should not bring their own flags along with their own radio system. The proliferation of SZ/SC/FCY/VFCY boards that turn up at some meetings show this can be done.



Easier said than done, what's the maximum number you'd need?

I guess the Silverstone G.P circuit probably has the most Flag Points

I agree about the Flag Marshal point, you're to use the Flags you're given, fair enough.

[Terrible-Tones]

What intrigues me, is how tightly this will be enforced? All dandy when you have a pit lane limiter or something but what about club level cars, many of which are single seats (Jedi, Formula Ford, Formula Vee), sports cars (Radical and such like), and for that matter, many tin tops don't have a speedo, so how does the driver know he is doing sixty kph?

For instance in Nina's MR2 the speedo does work, but due to a worn worm gear it fluctuates by about 10 mph, many of our friends in MR2 don't have connected speedos.

Is it a best guess scenario do you think, with just obvious flouters pinged? I guess it is up to the drivers really, and only a timekeeper can decide if the rules have been breached, on the bank we have no way of knowing?

Clearly this works on the continent, so there must be a way.

[MGDavid]

"many tin tops don't have a speedo, so how does the driver know he is doing sixty kph?"

easy - given the data for tyre rolling radius, FD ratio and a chosen gear ratio you work out the rpm at 60 kph and mark the rev counter.
I've done this in my cars ever since I was pinged for speeding in the pitlane at Spa (drivethrough penalty), which ruined my race.

[Woolley]

I imagine it will be phased in. Some clubs will choose to use it for some championships at some circuits. SC aren't universal, neither was the battenburg.

Of the options available, where the right infrastructure is available it's been the most successful I've used.

But not as good as drivers simply obeying the local yellows.

[Terrible-Tones]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

"many tin tops don't have a speedo, so how does the driver know he is doing sixty kph?"

easy - given the data for tyre rolling radius, FD ratio and a chosen gear ratio you work out the rpm at 60 kph and mark the rev counter.
I've done this in my cars ever since I was pinged for speeding in the pitlane at Spa (drivethrough penalty), which ruined my race.

Yeah good point, but since the Rev counter also bounces around a bit and sometimes doesn't work at all (minor ecu fault I think) maybe not 100%. For us the MR2 only does 15 min races, so if you pit then it is basically race over anyway so pit lane speed will always be well below 60 kph, just by "feel". At end you are following everyone else in anyway, which normally backs up a bit. Therefore real accurate pit lane speed a non essential. However, we will have to change that, so I think it is time for an exercise in maths!

MG DAVID, please can you do me a favour and PM me the equation you used, it is not something I have even thought about. It would be most useful and appreciated.

Btw, I'm not knocking code 60, as marshals, both Nina and I have "used it" and both think it is brilliant.

[midgetman]

To be fair, the MSA can only do so much. You can use a GPS enabled data logger, a normal speedometer, a bicycle speedo, the Rev counter - any number of things! If yours doesn't work/you can't think of what to do its hardly a good reason to not bring in a rule.

If you go online you'll find speed calculators all over the Internet where you can input gear ratios, tyre sizes, revs and it's all done for you.

It's not even expensive. I bought a simple rev counter for a kart for £25 or so on eBay. Wire it in as an emergency back up, you only need to look at it at slow speed.

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