Ambrose & Penske - Thoughts? (NOW WITH POLL)

[Winston05]

So Ambrose is coming back, and it looks like Penske have done a deal with DJR. I have a few questions:

1. What are your thoughts on Ambrose? How competitive will he be?
2. Penske: What are the arrangements with DJR (or what are they likely to be), and how good will they be?
3. Does this deal spell the realistic end of the Johnsons having managerial input into DJR?

[Gaz170]

I'd imagine like the Erebus purchase of SBR, Penske to take full ownership with Dick to stay around for a while as "consultant".
Probably not immediately competitive but once some money is spent on development, a Bathurst win is possible.

[Jam3s]

Quite frankly they need to do a lot of sweeping through DJR management if they want success, can see Dick as mentioned being part of the project but not in any decision making position.

It would be great for the sport if it comes off and hopefully within 18 months become a force up there with T8, FPR, HRT & Volvo. He wouldn't come here if it's going to be a half-assed job, so can expect there will be adequate funding to produce an excellent product.

[Nicholosophy]

I have a soft spot for DJR but they haven't had the money to compete for a while now. Sadly when they did have the cash they didn't have the driver.

Really the only team like them left are BJR and Brad was smart enough to pick the best driver rather than the relative.

[sweetchuk]

Anyone who has seen him race in NASCAR can see his competitive spirit is just as strong as it ever was.
His performance & results, especially on the road courses, have been exemplary by any other driver's standards there at the top level & the only thing that has really continually let him down has been uncertain or depleted / insufficient team finances & funding for car development.

Penske simply won't have that funding problem so rather than worry about the car's lack of performance due to budgetary constraints, he will be free to concentrate on delivering the best results possible.

Not saying he will be on the pace first up, but nothing fires up Marcos like a challenge and given his previous success, and that of other drivers subsequent to his departure, I think he will come back here with a definite point to prove and he has lost little, if anything of his reflexes, outright speed and racecraft in the intervening years.

I wish him the best of luck and look forward to his (and Penske's) involvement back in the series.

[Nicholosophy]

Problem I see is the lack of test running. He will need laps to get back up to speed.

[billybanana]

Never particularly liked MA whilst he raced here but have been nothing but a staunch supporter of his efforts in the US. I don't think he has lost any of his competitive edge and he won't take long to get up to speed. How competitive he will be depends entirely on the car.

Sincerely hope that Dick gets the cash from a full buyout and enjoys his time as an ambassador for the team.

Certainly will inject some interest back into the series, after some questionable decisions by City Hall of late.

[Mixer]

I know I am throwing a grenade out here with this but Marcos has been away a while and DJR quite honestly these days is a bit of a shambles.

Neither of the cars seem to really break out of the high teens, and often seem to be running together despite the fact that I rate Pye much more highly than Wall.

Look at how long it took Roland Dane to turn Briggs into the 888 we know today.

DJR has FPR cars now and we know they can be "challenging". If Penske are planning on building their own cars (and you'd think they should), how many other teams will they raid for quality guys, and how long will it take them to be really fast? Years?

[snappa]

Mixer I agree to a point. But the biggest problem for DJR since shell left is a desperate lack of funding to compete. If Penske is on board I don't think a lack of funds will be a problem leveraging the right people out of their current roles in other teams may be though? The other big question will be who would be Marcos's teammate?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Mixer

I know I am throwing a grenade out here with this but Marcos has been away a while and DJR quite honestly these days is a bit of a shambles.

Neither of the cars seem to really break out of the high teens, and often seem to be running together despite the fact that I rate Pye much more highly than Wall.

Look at how long it took Roland Dane to turn Briggs into the 888 we know today.

DJR has FPR cars now and we know they can be "challenging". If Penske are planning on building their own cars (and you'd think they should), how many other teams will they raid for quality guys, and how long will it take them to be really fast? Years?

Its not a grenade, its thinking that many people have but dont share for fear of offending the leader of DJR...

The real challenge is that we still dont quite know the form of the operation that may or may not run Mr Ambrose. You just dont know whether its a one car deal (ala 00 for Mr Lowndes) or as part of a bigger plan.

In terms of technical resource, that's a larger question. Pinching people isnt difficult if the right number of dollars are waved under their noses.. but you would kinda hope people would join the program because of who they would be working for, and not just a paycheque.. it builds engagement, or something like that.

The team will also need a new chassis for Mr Ambrose, at least one, should he join the team. All 3 current DJR units have been smashed hard at some point after all..

Presuming Mr Ambrose ends up at DJR. Or in a Ford. Or with Mr Power as an enduro teammate. Or any of the above

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by snappa

Mixer I agree to a point. But the biggest problem for DJR since shell left is a desperate lack of funding to compete. If Penske is on board I don't think a lack of funds will be a problem leveraging the right people out of their current roles in other teams may be though? The other big question will be who would be Marcos's teammate?

Is the money to be spent on the new program, or satisfying expenses from previous racing seasons?

[gomick]

How much funding did DJR have when Courtney won the title 4 years ago?

Scott Pye would be a worthy team-mate after his drive at Sandown

[snappa]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Is the money to be spent on the new program, or satisfying expenses from previous racing seasons?

One would think a savvy businessman like Mr Penske would be ensuring that all debts are a problem of the current / previous owners and not to be taken on by his organisation. Obviously a compromise on the sticking points in negotiation have been found and there may be some land changing hands out Stapylton way...

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by gomick

How much funding did DJR have when Courtney won the title 4 years ago?

If you understand the story from Mr Schwerkolt, whatever needed to be spent on #18 was... from his pocket..

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

If you understand the story from Mr Schwerkolt, whatever needed to be spent on #18 was... from his pocket..

There's also a stark difference between the talent at the team then, and the fact that the 888 FG was a wicked piece of kit, arguably more competitive than any single car in the COTF era.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Mixer

There's also a stark difference between the talent at the team then, and the fact that the 888 FG was a wicked piece of kit, arguably more competitive than any single car in the COTF era.

Sure, but the DJR/888 FG had a strong InnoV8 engine aboard at the time also...

Not to say that the 888 VF is anybody's lucky door prize either...

[porsche91722]

IF Penske does join the V8SC circus, they'll be competitive from scratch. In saying that I mean they will be winning races in their first season. There's probably not too many other teams that have raced in such a wide cross section of motorsports and been successful in just about all of them. The guy does not accept anything less.
As for Marcos, I haven't seen anything yet, other than the "mounting speculation" that he will be with Penske on his return to Australia. Admittedly, it sounds like a good chance he will be with the Penske team if indeed it all falls into place. Ambrose is not short of a quid, so I am thinking he would go where he reckons he will stand the best chance of success. Whatever he gets in the V8s would only be beer money for him anyway, compared to what he earned in NASCAR.

[canamman]

I am sure Marcos will bring a new (US) fan base to V8SC or wherever he lands, and look forward to keeping up with him going forward.

[Winston05]

As an armchair expert, I just wanted to clarify the situation as I understand it:

- The V8 commentary crew today were talking about Ambrose joining DJR as though it was a done deal, stating that he will be at DJR next year.
- Penske are saying nothing until Tuesday (USA or AU? I can't remember).

One can join the obvious dots and make a fairly obvious assumption that Penske will be involved in DJR next season. What isn't clear is in what capacity, or even what manufacturer they will represent.

I started this thread primarily because I was getting a tad ****ed off about the Penske and Ambrose fanboys that are confident the team will be instantly competitive. While it's not impossible, especially late in the season, I have serious doubts that even Whincup could jump to a Penske takeover at DJR and be confident of winning races next year. I agree with those that think the exact details of the DJR deal/takeover will determine the kind of impact that Penske will have. Assuming an entire team takeover, here are the factors that I suspect will come into play. I have sorted them by POSITIVE and NEGATIVE factors:

- POSITIVE: Ambrose joining DJR. Considering the sponsors that Ambrose would bring, it's not like he wouldn't have been able to find a competitive seat. For example, TWR and FPR wouldn't hesitate to make room for him. I imagine that if Ambrose's manager approached Volvo, there wouldn't be a problem slotting him into the lineup. I can't see that somebody with a reputation like Ambrose would want or need to sign with a struggling team like DJR, so surely there is something substantial happening there?

- POSITIVE, though circumstantial: Volvo already confirming that they want to run more cars next year. Rogers has already indicated that his team would support another Volvo team if it made financial sense. People may talk about Marcos' "brand loyalty", but loyalty nowadays tends to have more to do with contractual arrangements than emotional convenience (e.g. Skaife and his continued ties with Holden despite being shafted by TW and Holden execs). Another factor, though I am not sure how significant it is, is that Ford owned Volvo from 1999 until 2010. One would assume there are still connections between the two companies still? On the other side of the coin, why would Penske stay/run with Ford? Ford have been backing out of the sport for years, so why would you continue with them when better options are available? Long story short, I think it's more likely that Marcos will be driving a Volvo next year than a Falcon. And I think stepping into a Volvo would give Marcos a better shot at a competitive first season back in V8s than stepping into a DJR Falcon.

- NEGATIVE: Yank arrogance. This will be new ground in the V8s, as we haven't really seen a new operation of this significance since 888 arrived on our shores. 888's first year and a bit was a shocker, but they did get their act together for 2005 and beyond. The COTF specification will help Penske be more consistent than 888's first full season, but my strong gut feeling is that Penske will make some major mistakes in their first year here.

- NEGATIVE: DJR. I know that Penske like tradition, and they will no doubt leverage that with DJR's sponsors (who?). But this is a team that has had massive problems with budgets, staff turnover, and management for many years. Even a fluke championship win couldn't save them! Clearly there are at least a few talented people there, because Pye didn't close in on the leaders today (Sandown) without some decent engineering and support behind him. But there is a lot of work to do there, and I can't help but wonder if Penske would have been better off to just buy a couple of RECs from V8SC and start from scratch? Perhaps it works out cheaper this way, but at what cost?

Summary: I think it's going to be a very interesting year for Ambrose. He may well win races, especially if the Volvo rumours are correct. But I expect the team to be inconsistent at best. 2016 onwards should be good for them. All in all, I'll be stoked to see Ambrose back in the field, and stoked to see another team mix it with 888, TWR, GRM, and FPR.

[mountainstar]

The boys at DJR will not know what hits them if Penske buys the team. Penske has high expectations of performance and appearance and I can guarantee his business and work climate is much different than the current state of affairs at DJR.

Ambrose, well he has not announced his plans yet, so who knows. He could retire for all we know.

[Casper]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorspo...14-10go33.html

Where's our resident MA hater? This should make his day.

[Gulf]

So is this more than a re branding like Volvos Polestar because thats what I thought a first.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Casper

Where's our resident MA hater? This should make his day.

I'll put my hand up as an MA Skeptic.... He is a driver of immense talent but also he lacked the engineering skills of some current drivers, plus his temperament got the better of him, to his detriment. Of course a whole lot of time has passed now and he has a wealth of new experience, which is going to make things very interesting.

However given he has been racing almost 40 weekends a year, is going to move countries and has earned a reported $30m while over there, what makes you all think the Messiah will want to drive in 2015? He is a very competitive individual, maybe that's enough.

[gomick]

FPR gave DJR a car to run for Mostert - why wouldn't they do the same for Ambrose if the situation arose?

[Axeman444]

Originally Posted by snappa

One would think a savvy businessman like Mr Penske would be ensuring that all debts are a problem of the current / previous owners and not to be taken on by his organisation. Obviously a compromise on the sticking points in negotiation have been found and there may be some land changing hands out Stapylton way...

So is Mr Braebeck the one leaving (Speedcafe comment seems to think so) and Penske is buying him out?

It may be the compromise is yet to happen or had already happened, and the RPM announcement is what has Penske scrambling to hold a presser.

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

If you understand the story from Mr Schwerkolt, whatever needed to be spent on #18 was... from his pocket..

And if you believe Johnson Jnr, the 2011 war chest was severely raided to ensure JC had a car beneath him that could win at the end of 2010. And as history shows, Captain Forklifts was no longer around for 2011