Young Drivers in Historic Motor Sport and associated topics.

[LYNX]

Unless motor racing runs elitist and only in families, handed down from father/mother to son/daughter; without attracting spectators how are we going to motivate new blood into the sport, not just drivers but marshalls and everyone and everything that makes a car race possible. All meetings must look at what they are trying to achieve and how best to please the majority of each group. Motion Works are trying with the Silverstone Classic, time will tell how well they manage the fit. Who else?

[john ruston]

As for new blood,can't see it as Historic Racing is for the has beens and never beens.Kids start because they have failed at moderns .

We are lucky anyone comes to the racing as we are on a par in sporting terms with Northwich Victoria Reserves and remember the name Braddley Wiggin's is much better known to the British public than anyone in Histeric racing.People turn up to see old cars or in the case of Goodwood because its the place to be and joe public can rub shoulders with the gentry and dress up in stupid clothes.

Thats better!

[LYNX]

There are a number of youngsters driving in Historic events, from 16 years of age in FJ to Masters F1, in fact at Goodwood Revival there will be more under 25 year olds then female drivers. This is for a variety of reasons. John Ruston's comments are unjust and though may be true in some cases cannot be considered a scientific response.

[simon drabble]

Actually I think JR is bang on the money. With the possible exception of Ollie Bryant who has had some modern success the young pot hunters have not cut it in modern stuff.
We are all weekend warriors and the people at the classic and goodwood and other events are there for the occassion or to see some famous cars. They certainly are not drawn in by any of us!! Sorry for the reality check.....

[Peter Mallett]

As for new blood,can't see it as Historic Racing is for the has beens and never beens.Kids start because they have failed at moderns .

I resemble that remark!

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by john ruston

As for new blood, can't see it as Historic Racing is for the has beens and never beens. Kids start because they have failed at moderns.

Originally Posted by simon drabble

Actually I think JR is bang on the money. With the possible exception of Ollie Bryant who has had some modern success the young pot hunters have not cut it in modern stuff.

'Master and apprentice at it again' alert! Come on gents, this actually isn't quite true is it. It really doesn't matter how they get into historic racing as long as we get them there. Some start in historics, move on, come back, whatever. Some maybe sons of current historic racers. The fact is that some youngsters do enter historic racing for whatever reason. Apart from Ollie, there's Joe Twyman, Ed Jowsey, Will Schryver, Mick Lyons and Luke Stevens, and this year even last years Formula Ford champ, Calum Macleod has had a a crack at it. And these are just those that came to immediate mind. I also know of others that would like to have a go and they don't necessarily want to become stars. As long as they are there to help perpetuate historic racing, which lest we forget, is still an expanding area, and by its very nature caters for a broader range and age of cars than all the contemporary series put together, then it really doesn't matter whether they have failed in other forms of motorsport. That's also better!

[john ruston]

The list of young drivers is the nearly made it brigade and want to be's.
Nothing wrong with that but the chances of them going any further are between slim and no chance.As far as FJ.I note that Peter Pan otherwise known as Martin Walford is still at the front after 15 years in the Formula so not to many Hot Shoes there.
Historics are a place for dreamers and old men (or women) who want to enjoy and relive the past along with a few Spectators and thats good but don't confuse it with serious racing .It can also be argued that it is the cheapest form of racing as the cars do not depreciate.The spectators usually know much more about the cars than the owners and should be allowed to have free access to the cars racing.
Can't comment on Goodwood ,never stayed long enough to understand it but didn't see to many kids.

The young guns can stand by to replace the over 60 drivers such as Barry Williams as there should be a few vacancies.If you want to see stars of tomorrow try Rye House or Kimbolton

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by John Turner

'Master and apprentice at it again' alert! Come on gents, this actually isn't quite true is it. Apart from Ollie, there's Joe Twyman, Ed Jowsey, Will Schryver, Mick Lyons and Luke Stevens, and this year even last years Formula Ford champ, Calum Macleod has had a a crack at it. And these are just those that came to immediate mind. I also know of others that would like to have a go and they don't necessarily want to become stars.

Busted!
To be fair I dont think JR was having a pop merely in his brusque manner stating fact! Most of them end up driving for him at some point anyway so he cant be that against them!!! From my standpoint the ones I know in that list are genuine enthusiasts so good luck to them!
What each has done in modern stuff is irrelevant but I am pretty certain that Ollie is the most successful in it of the regular historic young guns and going forward is doing more in that and treating historics as a hobby - and that is the point that JR and I were trying to make.
There is a growing band of participants who are treating this whole thing far to seriously this is a hobby and nothing more - if you want to become serious and have your pits to yourself etc.. go and do the Porsche series supporting the GP circus!

[terence]

Yes exactly Simon,as I have often said,the likelyhood of Bernie phoning anyone in Historics is quite remote.!!

We are talking Hello magazine,are we not.?

[terence]

[quote=terence bower]Yes exactly Simon,as I have often said,the likelyhood of Bernie phoning anyone in Historics is quite remote.!!


The fact that so few youngsters are coming into Historics will eventually lead to the death of Historics as we know it.You only need look at what has happened to the Austin Sevens,they have very little choice of races mainly because of a lack of interest [saddly].
The thing that seems to have been forgotten is the fact that a lot of those cars were the starting blocks for much grander creations/designers.

[John Turner]

Sorry Terence, but yet again, I find myself disagreeing with you. The death of historic motor sport 'as we know it' will not be as a result of a dearth of young drivers coming into it but for other reasons. Historic racing has always been sustained by mainly middle aged to older drivers. Some have come into it to realise a childhood dream and because they can now afford it; others have come to it as John and Simon have rather unkindly said, because they have failed at contemporary level (although that too has often been about lack of finance) and others, like Stirling Moss, Jack Brabham, Richard Attwood, Jackie Oliver, Win Percy and 'Whizzo' have come to it because they love the sport and the cars so much, that they can't stop until old age and/or injury intervene. The number of youngsters in historic sport has always been low and yet the sport has continued to grow over the last 40 years and particularly strongly over the last 20 years. It's why John, Simon and I can look at the same situation and take what appears to be a different view. Their glass is half empty whereas mine is half full , because I'm quite gratified by the number of youngsters in historics even if it is true that some are just passing through. It means that they are aware of it. But, in truth, the bulk of historic racing will always be made up of the older drivers for the reasons stated above, and since we (in the UK, anyway) have an increasingly elderly population I cannot see that the pool of such people will reduce. There maybe other reasons why historic racing dies but it will be tied to other issues in the World and would only be one of many aspects of life, affected

[simon drabble]

I think you will be surprised - there are a number of genuine enthusiasts racing VSCC cars and 50's stuff that were probably born in 70's. Sure in many cases they might have inherited them but is that such a crime? I think the biggest threat to historic club racing will be the cost and possible depth of recession. If we are entering an economic period last seen in 70's I think many participants at club level will be forced out. That will be a great shame. Back in 70's historic racing was definitely for fun but with the Corner's etc there were not that many grass root players (except in VSCC)

[terence]

John,you are welcome to you're opinion,I'm going by the attitudes of quite a few youngsters of today.If it has no ECU in it they are not interested,if they are not interested,who will be looking after the cars that they are incapable of maintaining because they will not want to get their hands dirty.Those are the sort I refer to,there are just not enough youngsters [not the current handful] coming in to it.
I have to add that there are quite a few who race in the modern saloon type series who are only there because their mates do it,not for the love of it,which as we all know,is the main driving force.

[John Turner]

Ok, I omitted the owners of inherited cars and/or wealth but that only adds another cadre of elderly drivers in support of my view. And no it isn't a crime! Simon, I agree with your scenario for the decline in Histiroc and Club racing is a more likely one, but let's hope not. It didn't completely collapse in the late 80's early 90's when the classic car market fell through the floor, so with any luck, it won't do so this time. It might actually provide an opportunity to control the level of historic meetings and a more structured and cooperative approach to when they are held (some hope!) at a time when we complain that there are simply too many meetings and some of them clash!

[John Turner]

Terence, I don't disagree with any of what your post says above, but, with respect, that is a wider issue over the whole motor racing scene and is a different debate. It does not negate or cut across my comments concerning historic racing which in fact is less likely to be affected for the very reasons that the young representation in it, is small.

[john ruston]

VSCC and FF are the places to learn to drive and cheaply.
Still thinking of a Top Line Driver in Historic's.Top Driver at Silverstone was the Bloke in Sandy Watsons B8 who knocked out laps in 2 01 time after time.Turned out he is the only bloke to win a F3 race in a B Cat car.
As good as he is , he never made the very top grade.Sam Shepherds is as quick as anyone and he was 3rd or 4th Brit home at the Porsche race on GP day.Both Luke S and Ollie are or have been BRDC Stars of Tomorrow with Luke probably being the quicker but they will find tomorrow never comes to go to the very top.These kids are very good compared to the usual Saga Drivers(Ollies words) but they should be.The Driller Sheldon of yesterday would have been as quick or quicker than any of them.He can still do the Biz at 60

Rather than discuss the top of the tree it would be a good idea to educate the young and explain that they can join in Historic Racing and enjoy themselves at much less expense than moderns.Downside to this is that they turn up and think its real and drive as though it is moderns with resulting carnage.

I think Lewis and his mates are paid to go to Goodwood.!Always had a lot of time for Dario when he raced at Goodwood

[John Turner]

Agree with pretty much all of that, John. You don't have to aspire to F1 (or F3 come to that) to enjoy yourself in motor racing, and let's face it, unless you are exceptional, you have to take potloads of money with you. It is not just lack of talent that prevents you getting to the higher echelons. Anyway, it's all relative; the fact that they are not the new Fangio, Moss, Clark, Stewart, Prost, Schuey, Alonso, Hamilton, etc doesn't make them failures; they still demonstrate an ability way above those of us who enjoy watching them and if they can do so in historics that is great. You are right, though, that some need to show more mechanical sympathy for their aged mounts, particularly when they are not the ones to pick up the bills!

[john ruston]

Two names of people who made it after driving old crocks-Seaman and Hawthorne.I am open minded.

[john ruston]

Jill agree that my thoughts are not scientific (but well thought out),and perhaps could be occasionally outrageous ,but all they are is a stated opinion. I can live with the rejection of not everyone agrees, but thats life.

The problem I have is that many people involved with Historic Racing take it to seriously.It is a game for the weekend warrior and in terms of importance is about the same as lacrosse

[simon drabble]

although not a youngster when he started racing cars (after a successful career racing power boats) in 1982 Don Shead started with a Lister before progressingto Group C C2 where he had some success at Le Mans. Colin Pool is another who started in historics as a mature student before moving onto win the Thundersports championship in period...

[LYNX]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Jill agree that my thoughts are not scientific (but well thought out),and perhaps could be occasionally outrageous ,but all they are is a stated opinion. I can live with the rejection of not everyone agrees, but thats life.

The problem I have is that many people involved with Historic Racing take it to seriously.It is a game for the weekend warrior and in terms of importance is about the same as lacrosse

John, maybe I am too literal in my thoughts and try to keep to the topic, but as John Turner has said going off at tangents is the norm. I hope everyone involved in racing at all levels takes it seriously; but not themselves - to the point of pomposity.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

We are all weekend warriors and the people at the classic and goodwood and other events are there for the occassion or to see some famous cars. They certainly are not drawn in by any of us!! Sorry for the reality check.....

Not, for me, quite true. There are a number of names whose presence at Classic/Historic events attracts my attention/interest.

But then I'm old enough to remember most of them when they and the cars they are driving were current.

Jim

[terence]

How many of the "Young Bloods" will develope into names such as Tony Dron,Whizzo,Fearless etcLets not forget that these drivers,amongst many others have all had works drives at some stage in their driving careers.

[simon drabble]

I was of course talking about us mere mortals rather than the great and good - well I am now going to try and reverse the flow and beat my son at karting in a race at Thruxton -not that glam but a lot of fun!

[terence]

On a very serious diet?