Bernie: Imola To Stage Last GP

[santori]

I'd love to see it move around but I think circuits need the annual income and attention to remain at GP levels.

[Startline1]

I agree, the euro Gp should move around.Can`t say i`ll miss Imola as IMHO there should be only 1 fixed Gp per country.

Having said that i don`t think there is any real need to go to the far east etc.,far better to bring back Zandvoort or Rio.

WARNING RANT AHEAD!!

It`s about time Max found his B..ls and put his foot down to moderate Bernie.(sorry but my blood boils when i think how this sport i love has been degraded to a money orientated specticle).

OK rant over,

Chris

[DriverT]

Yeah it is ridiculous. I liked Imola, but the way it has been changed makes it a bit naff. There is no excuse for having two Grands Prix in Germany. I don't mind the F1 circus moving around the world, because everyone should see it. But India???

As for saying Europe will not be able to compete with the likes of India in a few years time... that's a joke. What is this guy on?

[Raglanparade]

Imola has been one of the most boring races on the F1 Calender for years now. I think the Hungaroring and Barcelona are the same though. The teams shouldnt be allowed to test at world championship circuits. What happens it that you get really boring races at Barcelona because all the teams run there so much and its not a new challenge to them. I know this would be against everything in modern f1, but why not bring back the old silverstone circuit with a modern pitlane setting and of course the mandatory massively lucious media centre that seems to be more important then the race in Bernies eyes.
For the last 10 years or even longer f1 has purely been about the money, not about the racing, or the ability. Ok, in the wake of Senna's accident maybe safety needed to be improved but did we really need to Mickey Mousenise all the classic circuits.
Silverstone needs to have a tight chicane at the current beckets corner... then it gives the cars a chance to slow down and speed up and gain an advantage down hangar straight..
maybe maybe stowe a tighter corner.. and then have a straight run down to a flat out club and then tighten Abbey chicane so it promotes overtaking ??
now that would make silverstone racing more exiticing..
while the sport may need more money, if the racing is boring then you wont get the spectators at the circuit.
Sepang is the best example.. its the best facilities in the world without a doubt.. but it cant fill the seats even when we have mid race monsoons and Jos Verstappen is racing up to 2nd in the Arrows ! (aah 2001).. i once read that %70 of Sepang patrons were overseas visitors.. now is that what we want it to be ? Asian races they are used as Junkets for international business..
As for china.. i cant see a country where most people ride bicycles to get around being interesting in seeing a non eventful race.. maybe if they had a car culture.. i think south korea makes more cars then china.. i think maybe china would be better off having a bicycle race then a f1 race.. but i guess they have the economic growth and thus to surplus cash to satsify Bernie !
its a well known fact that men get stingy in there old age.. Bernies pushing mid 70's now... he should be in a home on a pension.. not screwing around with the best series the world has ever seen and the sooner he gets of out of f1 and others set it back on the right path the better.. we need europe.. f1 is europe.. its ok to have some other races but it needs to be based in europe...
do you see the nascars leaving the US ??

anyways... im bored and typed enough now.. modern f1 frustrates me.. bring back the 60's and 70's (even tho i wasnt born then)

-jason

[Teretonga]

Raulsands and EERO make good comment.
Bernie's slagging off at silverstone has reached the point where he's wearing at his welcome from the people who are the entusiasts of F1. He may think its the general public that generate the 4 from the sponsors that keep the whole thing rolling along but if he considered that the enthusiasts stopped buying the magazines etc, and the journalists lost their jobs writing about the sport, there is not enough interest from the mainstream media to sustain interest in F1. If the F1 fans turned to some other form of racing (or something completely different) F1 would lose alot of its value as the peak of performance motor racing, and if that happens the present category will turn into something resembling and economic custard.

[GP Racer]

My question is, how does Bernie get away with making such irresponsible statements without any repercussions?

To say Europe and N. America will be like the third world in 10 years, is absurd, and it does nothing but anger your fan base. It is the West that buys the Ferrari's, BMW's and Jaguar's. This is where they sell there cars. I seriously doubt we'll be seeing any Ferrari's tooling down Tianamen Square anytime soon. So whats in this for the manufacturers anyway? Don't they have a say in where they want to be seen?

[Shoe-maker]

I won't miss Imola all that much. The European Grand Prix should have a different venue each year, if that is feasible. Places like Holland, Portugal and Sweden should be able to host the event. I feel another "dream calendar" thread coming up.

[Gt_R]

Quote "I seriously doubt we'll be seeing any Ferrari's tooling down Tianamen Square anytime soon."

If i'm not mistaken, there was a picture some time ago where many many Ferraris gathered at Tiananmen Sq sort of to celebrate Shanghai getting an F1 race.

However, i do agree with you that some Asian locations need to beef up their level. Sepang, well designed as it is, was very badly maintained. And for all the huge grandstands, it's barely filled which really makes the event look boring.

However, we had no problems with races in Japan/Austrialia, both countries very near China/Malaysia that people are complaining about... ?

It's true that F1 should still predominantly be a Europe-based sports... but for the West to look down at some Asian/Eastern countries would be a very wrong move.

[Gt_R]

Problem is, with many disease outbreaks from China, SARS/Bird flu, would it still go on?

[Raglanparade]

Yeah i reckon BirdFlu will help the lesser teams because all the rich pretty boys that call themselves racers wont turn up. and the real men like da matta, webber, button, heidfeld will be battling out to win the inaugral birdflu GP :0

[Surtees]

Originally posted by EERO
Of course, Bernie is correct to point out the long traditon of Motorsports in India, China and Turkey. We all know the enourmous contribution that the Hindustan Ambassador has made to Motorsports History and accounting for the huge influx of Indian and Chinese Automobiles at all levels of the International car market and the the fact that most of the Formula One Teams are located outside of Shanghai, it all makes perfect sense to me.

Haha well said! I think the Monaco GP is as dull as dishwater and not safe either - weren't they meant to be improving that pathetic "pit lane" a few years ago? How anyone can bang on about Silverstone being cr@p and unsafe, yet turn a blind eye to Monaco is beyond me. I guess as usual, politics and money speaks louder than a real passion for the sport.

Having said that, I dislike Silverstone as a spectator circuit, it's too flat and you can't see ANYTHING unless you are at Luffield. I also wonder why they charge SO MUCH for F1 entry yet still struggle to find the money to make improvements.

It's all down to politics, it's gotta be. Maybe Bernie is courting the Asia market because of potential sponsorship benefits that will kick in once tobacco has been banned for good?

[oily oaf]

So once again Bernie is having a pop at Silverstone and Europe in general. Doesn't the bloke realise that Europe is the beating heart of F1 and that by relocating to all these exotic far flung locations he's alienating the most important people in any motorsport series, us the fans. As GP pointed out you've only got to look at the decline of CART to see what happens when u go down this route. Like many of you I wont shed too many tears over the loss of Imola, but I'd prefer to see F1 there than say Bahrein or India those well known hotbeds of Motorsport. If Ecclestone hates Siverstone so much why doesn't he buy into Brands Hatch and stage the race where at least u can see the bloody thing from virtually any vantage point. Not only that but doesn't the fool realise it's nearer my house and will save me not only petrol money but travelling time also. C'mon Bernie you know it makes sense.

[Super Tourer]

Originally posted by Fullerton
Having said that, I dislike Silverstone as a spectator circuit, it's too flat and you can't see ANYTHING unless you are at Luffield. I also wonder why they charge SO MUCH for F1 entry yet still struggle to find the money to make improvements.

It's all down to politics, it's gotta be. Maybe Bernie is courting the Asia market because of potential sponsorship benefits that will kick in once tobacco has been banned for good?

On the point about improvements, it's interesting to put this into context. As I understand it, this is how the basic revenue works for the promoter of the race.

The promoter pays FOM a fee in order to hold the race.

The only revenue the promoters gets is gate money.

FOM receive the TV right moeny for showing the race.

Allsport receive the revenue from the main hospitality complex and the trackside advertising.

If we take the example of Silverstone, the circuit is owned by the BRDC which is essentially a non-profit making association. The GP rights belong to Octagon PLC, who bought them along with the BHL circuits (recently sold to Jonathan Palmer). Therefore Octagon is the promoter and rents the track from the BRDC.

If we assume a gate of 50,000 people at £100 per time, Octagon's revenue (not profit) for the race is £5M or thereabouts.

When the last Bernie swipe at Silverstone took place, the the then chairman (Martin Brundle) gave a figure of around £5M as the BRDC's total income for the year, virtually all of which was Octagon's rent for the GP and other races they promoted.

Against this economic background, it's not hard to see that spending £20 or £30m on improving a circuit, based on a revenue stream from largely one event - over the future of which you have no control - makes no financial sense.

The new venues appearing on the calendar are largely state funded. The likes of the BRDC are never going to be able to compete against ciruits funded, or subsidised by government funds, so obviously those venues can afford a bigger and better circuit, stadiums and facilities, and are less concerned by the economic viability of the actual race.

It's also likely that the new venues will probably be the last to actually legislate against tobacco advertising, despite signing up to the WHO, and will more easily grant exceptions than many European governments will.

All in all it's a combination of political and financial muscle that could potentially prove a difficult combination for European circuits to fight off. If bernie get his way to increase the calendar to 20 races, then it will ease some of the pressure. However if the teams refuse and stick to the current number, the incoming pressure from new venues and their political and financial case for holding a race, will prove tricky for some long standing European races. IMO.

[jetsetter]

I hope that if these new races aren't successful for any reason than Bernie is as critical of them as he is of some of the other circuits around the world.

[j w davies]

bernie was wrong about digital television and he's wrong about moving races out of europe. very few people in europe will be bothered to watch a race in the far east (look at the ratings), and very few people in the far east are interested in f1 (look at the stands in sepang), brilliant thinking from bernie. are jaguar and renault going to waste millions trying to get malayians and chinese to buy there cars? (when due to import restrictions they can't anyway). obviously not.
we need a european single seater formula that doesn't serve as a feeder for f1, a euro version of cart (or something similar) with manning, wilson, firman et al racing g-force, lola, dallara, jordan? minardi? chassis on classic european circuits.
the press would be interested (more british drivers), the public would be interested (more britsh races), it would easily get tv coverage (as f1 races will be in the middle of the night), it will never happen.
john william davies

[santori]

European or British?

[Redblurr]

This is more to do with selling cigarettes than motor racing - Bernie is just a salesman working for the TMA

[santori]

I want F1 to spread everywhere - calling it a World Championship while basing it permanently in Europe (as some seem to want) is silly. And while I would love to see it race on classic European circuits that's not very likely, even if it remains centred in Europe. Most of the circuits are pretty poor by comparison with their predecessors.

But the way in which it is being spread does seem rather cart-before-donkey. On the other hand, the new countries could argue that an infrastructure is needed before a domestic history of motorsport is created and a good way to do that is with F1 facilities.
Look at the Nordschleife: perhaps the greatest circuit of all was created largely due to economic reasons. But that is not why it was great. Perhaps the same can happen again.

[Super Tourer]

I don't particularly have a problem with globalizing F1 per se, what concerns me is that very good circuits may get sidelined in the rush to embrace new venues that are effectively able to 'out bid' them in facilities, on the back of political backing and funding.

If one thing is sure, it's that politics are a short term activity. For the moment, other countries are prepared to fund a track/GP regardless of the cost. Governments and policy change on a regular basis, and the new found enthusiasm to pour money into F1, may not be shared by new administrations.

Threatening to remove a race from the calendar because the toilets aren't posh enough, or the sign posting is not 'customer friendly' enough should not be the basis for deciding the F1 calendar, and is only really a smokescreen to mask the real issues.IMO.

The focus should be on making the races financially viable to stage on a commercial basis, it's ironic that in such a blantantly commercial enviroment, probably one of the favourite annual races, Australia, loses money - ditto France and their reason for being on/off the calendar.

[santori]

But what good circuits? I agree about the poshness but most of those currently used in Europe are pretty bland. Maybe the competition will force them to find better tracks. It's ridiculous that France, which has more great tracks than just about anywhere, is represented by MC.

[jiminee]

Does anyone really believe that the people who run F1 (ie Bernie) actually care about the fans? Or care about providing entertaining races on challenging tracks? I doubt they even worry about the average fans that go to the races at all. The only thing that has any influence on F1 at the moment is television viewers and sponsors getting their message across.
I am sure they are quite happy to give a few thousand loyal fans the flick, if it means exposing millions and millions of more fans to all the sponsors.
This is now more obvious than ever and I really cant see it changing until the whole circus caves in on itself.

[Redblurr]

Stewart in defence of Silverstone:
http://sport.independent.co.uk/motor...p?story=487498

[PaulSands]

So that suggest that there could well be two races in Germany and none in Britain?

It's got nothing to do with motor racing (I suppose it hasnt really for a long time but I like to kid myself) it's all about maximising profits...all thats happening is that F1 is mirroring global business practice...move away from traditional more expensive bases to cheaper new ones thus increasing the profit made, with no regard to the carnage caused by moving out...this is why globalisation sucks satans dick (can I say that)
Of course these new bases will enjoy their time in the sun (and why shouldnt they) until somewhere cheaper emerges and they find themselves dropped quick as a flash...this is already being played out in the call centre world, centres that have been moved to India are already in danger of being dropped as an even cheaper Chinese option emerges