[Team] BBC : Renault lumps for Lotus next year, "Team Lotus" may return

[Ubique]

I'd hate to see Heikki leave Lotus for Renault as he seems to be really happy with the team and can become their undisputed number 1 when Trulli retires. Saying that if the financial side of things meant Lotus could make big jumps up the grid with the deal I'd snap Renault's hand off although I must say I'd rather if they had to have a new driver it be Karun Chandhok or Paul di Resta.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

I think the benefits of a tie-up with a manufacturer might exceed the benefits of having a better engine. The Renault brand makes the team that bit more accessible to non-racing people than Cosworth, which is a bit of a niché name.

That is a marketing issue, and they could be able to tap in to a technical partnership. Of course, there's also the Renault KERS - a known quantity. With the Renault involvement, we could always have a testing livery like this.

It's hard to get a definite read on whether the Renault engine is an improvement, but I'd say it is on driveability, fuel consumption and probably reliability, which are more important than outright speed for a backmarker team looking to take steady steps forward.

Let's see when we get to Monza. Absolute power isn't anything, and if it was a pile of poo Red Bull wouldn't be doing so well with it.

Senna in place of Trulli for 2011 could be a good move too - Heikki has even matched him in qualifying, let alone on raceday.

The "Senna-in-a-Lotus" factor is there of course.

I'd question how big an improvement Webber would be over Kovalainen, or whether pairing those two would be a good use of resources.

I'd question if Webber would want to go to Lotus, unless it transpires that the team has large amounts of money to throw at him. One guy who could be looking for a seat, could possibly bring a bit of money and has clear talent is Kamui Kobayashi. Kobayashi and Kovalainen would be an excellent pairing for a vastly improving team. Kobayashi's raw pace would push in Heikki, and Kovalainen has the familiarity with the team and the experience.

I've been impressed with Lotus this year, and can see much more potential than I saw from Force India in 2008. It's unclear exactly how big an advantage the Lotus name and association is, but I don't think it expalins the whole gap back to Virgin and Hispania.

I think it's because they have sensible people on board - Tony Fernandes actually understands motor racing (unlike Richard Branson), and Mike Gascoyne was an absolute steal. One imagines what this package would have been like if it was formed with the other new teams got their entries confirmed. Next year they could easily leapfrog Sauber et al.

Originally Posted by Ubique

I'd hate to see Heikki leave Lotus for Renault as he seems to be really happy with the team and can become their undisputed number 1 when Trulli retires. Saying that if the financial side of things meant Lotus could make big jumps up the grid with the deal I'd snap Renault's hand off although I must say I'd rather if they had to have a new driver it be Karun Chandhok or Paul di Resta.

Would Heikki want to go back to a team where he was undisputed number two though? OK, that was under His Flavness. At Lotus he could shape the team.

[duke_toaster]

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/...on-team-lotus/

Joe Saward thinks it will also be Team Lotus in 2011, thinks Fernandes might eventually go for buying Ketteringham Hall ... or maybe even Lotus Cars. Ketteringham Hall is supposedly being used as industrial sites, it would be a good place to have, even if it's just the offices there.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

All the teams will have had time to develop their KERS systems, though. KERSes aren't frozen.


EDIT : Which one was the Zytek? I'm pretty sure it was either the Renault, the Ferrari or both that was Magneti Marelli.

I believe it was McLaren who was using the Zytec, with Renault and Ferrari using the Magneti Marrelli inspired system.

99.9% sure the above is correct.

Edit: Did I not read that the KERS for 2010 was likely to be a spec unit? Possibly the not as yet seen racing Flywheel derived type of system that Williams was / is developing in house through their associate company. Mind you, I have also read reports suggesting it will be a Magnetti Marelli spec unit.

Some proof of my comment re Zytek...McLaren used Zytek

[duke_toaster]

It won't be a spec system next year. It was considered but ultimately rejected. As was making the KERS system more powerful than it was in 2009.

[NeilB]

Originally Posted by E.B

Possibly the not as yet seen racing Flywheel derived type of system that Williams was / is developing in house through their associate company. Mind you, I have also read reports suggesting it will be a Magnetti Marelli spec unit.]

Although theoretically the Williams system was the best for harvesting energy, we won't see the Williams fly wheel KERS system in todays F1 cars, due to the system been housed in the area of the fuel tank. The system would of worked in 2009 due to the small fuel tanks in use, but now with larger tanks it isn't feasible to have this installed.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by NeilB

Although theoretically the Williams system was the best for harvesting energy, we won't see the Williams fly wheel KERS system in todays F1 cars, due to the system been housed in the area of the fuel tank. The system would of worked in 2009 due to the small fuel tanks in use, but now with larger tanks it isn't feasible to have this installed.

That's bad news, I absolutely support KERS in F1 if it comes with genuine innovation and on those terms would love to see it raced in F1 again but I can't see much point if it's going to be nothing but "me too" battery systems. If we were to see purely mechanical systems competing against batteries against super capacitors against compressed gas or hydraulic accumulators and who knows what else now that'd be interesting.

But if it's just down to batteries there are better and more interesting places to push the limits of battery technology http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10324258.

[duke_toaster]

If both Renault and Ferrari were running Magneti Marelli gear, were they the same (apart from where you stick the engine in)?

[duke_toaster]

Someone on another forum claims that Tony Fernandes is in early stage talks to purchase Lotus Cars. Note that its parent company is owned by the Malaysian government - like AirAsia was before he turned it in to a highly successful airline. This person also claims that he is in the process of purchasing Classic Team Lotus. This would mean that Fernandes would be in control of all things Lotus.

It's a "some bloke form a forum" I know, but Joe Saward did allude to some of this. We'll see.

[bella]

side note: the way everyone keeps using joe saward in the same was as you go "but MY DAD said..." at primary school is getting really irritating!

that aside, i think fernandes is clearly an excellent businessman, and would be ideal for lotus cars.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by bella

side note: the way everyone keeps using joe saward in the same was as you go "but MY DAD said..." at primary school is getting really irritating!

I suppose so. However, I do think he's a credible journalist, and if you don't read his blog, it gets the D_T

that aside, i think fernandes is clearly an excellent businessman, and would be ideal for lotus cars.

Agreed. The BBC article mentioned a technical partnership with Renault. Lotus would probably be best served aligning themselves with the Renault-Nissan alliance rather than anyone else. One of those Nissan GTR engines in a Lotus Evora could show the GT1 world how to do it ...

[ECW Dan Selby]

So, would Team Lotus be from Malaysia..?

Or English?

Selby

[duke_toaster]

Don't know, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the opportunity to reflag it as British. While some of the Malaysian backers might have wanted it to be a bit more Malaysian, Tony Fernandes has "gone native" - and quite rightly so.

[ECW Dan Selby]

This is what i'm thinking - but would the Malaysian government be happy with that?

Selby

[duke_toaster]

I don't know about the ownership structure though, reputedly the Malaysian Government's only role is through Proton - and if Fernandes buys Lotus Cars of Proton, surely he'd also take their stake of the Lotus F1 team.

[bella]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

So, would Team Lotus be from Malaysia..?

Or English?

Selby

malaysian, totally. its a lot more close-run than say, red bull being british or austrian though.

tbh i think its enough for those who are bothered by the nationality of a team that the operation is being run so well and appropriately in spirit of the... well, spirit of the original team lotus. and in the colours. if they need any more then they should reassess their priorities imo

[duke_toaster]

It is low priority, but it would be preferable if the team was entered under a British competitor licence.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

It is low priority, but it would be preferable if the team was entered under a British competitor licence.

Yeh, couldn't agree more. Lowest of the priorities, but it'd definitely be the icing on the cake.

Selby

[bella]

like i said before i kinda see it as a bit of a mark of respect towards the malaysians for saving, resurrecting and doing justice to the history that is team lotus. it's not like they owe the british anything - they're still based here and employing british people.

[Matador]

Toyota still has a 2 year engine supply sitting around, surely they'd be at least as good as the renault, and could be had on the extremely cheap?

[duke_toaster]

IIRC the Toyota engine is pretty hideous. Besides, this suggested arrangement purportedly includes a technical partnership for Lotus Cars (even though at the moment they are separate from Lotus Racing).

[SennaTheGreat]

Also gives Lotus Cars two makes of engines to play with, Toyota and Renault lumps if this goes ahead. Would love to see Lotus' version of the 3.5L V6 Renault use in the Laguna's

[bella]

just remembered it seems quite obvious when you think fairuz fauzy has a junior lotus racing team in formula renault 3.5

they've promised one of their drivers a test so long as he pulls his finger out and gets some good results fwiw, though as far as i know there's no contractual obligations to do so.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by SennaTheGreat

Also gives Lotus Cars two makes of engines to play with, Toyota and Renault lumps if this goes ahead. Would love to see Lotus' version of the 3.5L V6 Renault use in the Laguna's

It would certainly be something if something with a bit more power was plonked in an Evora. Then again, it would be interesting to see the Renault Twingo Lotus

[wnut]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

That's bad news, I absolutely support KERS in F1 if it comes with genuine innovation and on those terms would love to see it raced in F1 again but I can't see much point if it's going to be nothing but "me too" battery systems. If we were to see purely mechanical systems competing against batteries against super capacitors against compressed gas or hydraulic accumulators and who knows what else now that'd be interesting.

But if it's just down to batteries there are better and more interesting places to push the limits of battery technology http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10324258.

Your proposal would make the KERS contribution a genuine research project and a performance differentiator.
Severely impact on the motor home and estate budgets though and could actually force the teams to spend money on something other than aero -
all good!