FIA / F1 Safety Car regs 2010

[Greem]

[This probably has a place in the F1, V8, FF and Trackside forums aswell!]

Claire Williams from Williams F1 just put out on Twitter:

All the drivers ran safety car practice runs just before lunch. They have to meet a certain time that is transmitted to their dash. Clever.

Slow on the uptake as I am... it just struck me that if the drivers are gazing lovingly at their steering wheels, ensuring they don't exceed (or drop under) the proscribed time for that sector of track as defined by the FIA (or CoC, as appropriate), then they're even less likely to be watching out for us.

Is it just me, or should F1 (and series below it) just forsake technology for the hell of it and go back to a decent system where drivers actually get punished - points deductions, maybe - for acting like blind uncaring eejits?

Loathe as I am to think this, the prospect of the US-style full course yellow for everything has to be preferable to having drivers staring at instruments.

[The STIG]

Is this in addition to the "flag" lights on the dashboard? I don't like the sounds of those and the sound of a driver paying more attention to his dashboard to set a time is even more worrying!

[Tal Aras]

Didn't they have something like this last year, relating to pitting as the safety car came out. I think once the boards and lights showed safety car, they where penalised if they took quicker than a given time to reach the pits.

I think it was to remove the risk of drivers running out of fuel when the pit lane was closed while the queue built up around behind the safety car.

[Sparky-steve]

well if the drivers don't like the safty car coming out they can always
just do this:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYO4yPmf5AI

[Stuart H]

Originally Posted by Sparky-steve

well if the drivers don't like the safty car coming out they can always
just do this:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYO4yPmf5AI

Bet that was one hell of write up job!!

[Woolley]

See similar discussion in Aussie forum. Driver's need to learn SC means slow down straight away, there's probably a good reason.

Actually, they just need to learn we don't just wave the yellow because it smelled a bit musty, if you obey it, we won't need the Safety Car.

[theracegypsy]

US full course yellow still gives the drivers the oportunity to drive at speed if not in the crocodile. I prefer the Dutch "Code 60" flag, which is self policing using the timing computer and ensures everyone is at 60kph within one sector of the flag being displayed.

[Bryan Degerlund]

worked very well at Dubai 24-hr race, especially pre-dawn when sweeper was required to assist clearing track after Porsche oil spill and consequent BBQ.

[Stuart Hill]

very simple answer to this..................

during their test days (which all major championships have), put the drivers on the track alongside a parked car, with waved yellows, and let us marshals drive at them in our road cars.

We're neither fast enough to scare them or good enough to avoid them so.......

sounds like a true wake-up call for all these so-called experts as to just how frightening it can be to be "out-there" helping them.

[TerryD]

[TerryD]

Originally Posted by Sparky-steve

well if the drivers don't like the safty car coming out they can always
just do this:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYO4yPmf5AI

If you look at the video from the drivers point of view he couldn't see the safety car till he hit it.

[HairyDJ]

Hmmm - and if the reason for the safety car deployment had been a broken car at that point in the circuit???????

[kipper]

Originally Posted by HairyDJ

Hmmm - and if the reason for the safety car deployment had been a broken car at that point in the circuit???????

Although I see your point; in the case of the incident at Pau I seem to remember that the safety car left the pits and immediately joined the racing line without any signficant acceleration. As such this differed from the normal practice of the safety car staying to the side of the track until sufficent momentum has gained and it can join the racing line in the most visible manner. Of course the debate over what speeds racing cars should be circulating at under yellow flags remains.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by TerryD

If you look at the video from the drivers point of view he couldn't see the safety car till he hit it.

But he could see the yellow flags and SC boards... I know the SC was in the wrong place, but you'd have thought they'd have given him a clue. I've said before, he could just as easily have come round the corner to find crashed cars and a road full of marshals.

However, that's off topic, the thread exists if anyone wants to continue that discussion

[Tal Aras]

Originally Posted by Woolley

But he could see the yellow flags and SC boards... I know the SC was in the wrong place, but you'd have thought they'd have given him a clue. I've said before, he could just as easily have come round the corner to find crashed cars and a road full of marshals.

However, that's off topic, the thread exists if anyone wants to continue that discussion

The safety car driver was found to be a fault for this one. Although the baords had (only just) gone out he hadn't been given the green light to leave the pits. Telemetry afterwards show Engstler had started to slow down for the yellows and I can't imagine he'd have been expecting anything to come out the pit lane at that point. If the incident had been round that corner, I imagine there would have been double waved yellows at the previous post.

[TerryD]

[alec]

I read her message to mean that they were testing to see how the cars behave under safety car conditions, not that drivers would have to clock watch in races.
This is obviously something that would need to be coordinated between teams at testing days, otherwise there would be chaos if one driver was doing SC speeds with others at full speed. Hence them doing it all at the same time.
Seeing as test sessions are red flagged for even the tiniest thing, I don't see it as dangerous as marshals will never be on a live track.

[Hepatic]

Originally Posted by alec

This is obviously something that would need to be coordinated between teams at testing days, otherwise there would be chaos if one driver was doing SC speeds with others at full speed.

What, you mean like during a race meeting?!

i like the Dutch 60 rule, just waiting for the powers that be to see that too. I won't hold my breath tho...

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Tal Aras

The safety car driver was found to be a fault for this one. Although the baords had (only just) gone out he hadn't been given the green light to leave the pits. Telemetry afterwards show Engstler had started to slow down for the yellows and I can't imagine he'd have been expecting anything to come out the pit lane at that point. If the incident had been round that corner, I imagine there would have been double waved yellows at the previous post.

I realize all of that. I do know the SC driver was judged to be at fault according to the investigation, however, Engstler had seen two boards before the start line and at least one after it as evidenced by the video (and I think he admitted as such), and if you're putting out SC boards then they over-ride the local yellows anyway. In theory, you don't need waved yellows in addition because they're going slowly under SC conditions...

TBH, I'm not really bothered about what he would be expecting around the corner, obeying the flags fully would have meant he was in a position to react to the unexpected. Started to slow suggests not much had changed - just how far round the lap was he intending to go before slowing down sufficiently?

We've moved to SC because drivers didn't observe the yellows, and we're constantly tweaking the SC rules because they don't behave properly even then. I'd venture to suggest the rules are not the problem, enforcement is.

Remember Trulli received no penalty for going off track behind the SC in Melbourne while Hamilton was crucified for being economical with the truth to the Stewards. That tells you how much the FIA values their self-importance over the safety of the marshals, and indicates just how likely they are to actually understand the problem they're supposed to be solving.