Audi LMP1 Discussion

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by MihokS5

That was 2 embarrassing years of Le Mans for Peugeot especially this year when none of the 908's were able to beat the "lone Audi" driven by the young squad

And again, Audi fans see the need to exaggerate. 2010 was an embarrassment for Peugeot, yes but this year? They finished less than 20 seconds apart..

And the "young squad", nice try of making it sound like Audi threw some inexperienced young talents in there, are you kidding me?

Fässler is 35, he has five seasons of DTM under his belt, it was his sixth Le Mans. Same goes for Treluyer who's Super GT & Formula Nippon champion and has vast Le Mans experience.

These drivers are every bit as experienced and accomplished as the Peugeot drivers. I guess compared to McNish and Tom K they´re young indeed but using that to try and belittle Peugeot's performance? Please...

But that's the kind of attitude I mean, Audi Sport or its fans never can take a win for what it is worth, it always needs to be made bigger than it is.

[DeutschRenn]

"fans".... only 1 person said anything about the youth of the drivers.

belittled the Audi 2010 win by saying it was pure luck nicht wahr?. im merely stating that it was a normal win just like any other year. not making it bigger.

point is you can't belittle Audi's 2010 win. because then every victory by any team could be belittled. A win is a win everyone in motorsport knows that. rain shorted, ending in safety car, rookie crashes on the last lap? a win is a win. its disrespectful to belittle a teams victorys.

[porsche91722]

Passionate arguments from both sides of the fence, however, no amount of spin or whinging will take away the facts.
LM24 2010 Audi 1st-2nd-3rd
LM24 2011 Audi 1st
Endurance racing has always been about who has the best package, which includes the drivers, the team, the cars and despite what Allan McNish said, a little bit of luck.
Winners are grinners, losers can please themselves.
ILMC winners will be forgotten by most, about a week after Zhuhai is done and dusted.
The new World Endurance series will command more respect and value particularly with increased manufacturer participation.

[DeutschRenn]

Ja!

[Gingers4Justice]

I can't actually believe some people get so het up by this debate.

I love motor racing more than anything but I don't get following a manufacturer like a football team. Just don't get it. I follow the sport.

Especially when they're dull mass-manufacturers. These companies make the A4 and the 106! Fair enough, I might perhaps get behind Alfa Romeo or Ferrari if they entered P1 because they make desirable cars, but I've never drawled over a 1007.

Audi will go down in history as one of the great Le Mans marques and their battle with Peugeot is magnificent to watch. Peugeot are excellent, but Audi are clearly better because they keep winning Le Mans, and that's all that needs to be said.

IMO, of course

[MitchZ06]

Never drooled over an R8 V10 then?

[DeutschRenn]

or an RS5. or the R8 Spyder...or a TTRS need we go on.

[CTD]

Or a Peugeot 205 T16

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Acid09

You don't seem to have all the information, Peugeot's engine failed because they used new titanium con rods to save a few hundred grams of weight. It was the new parts on the otherwise proven engine that failed, with the aluminum rods they could have pushed the engine to the brim and nothing would have happened.

If they were confident of being that much ahead they wouldn't have needed to push the envelope with new, unproven parts, just to save a minimal amount of weight.

[cdsvg]

No news on the Estoril test yet? I hope they're as forthcoming with photos/videos as Peugeot were, even if there aren't any visible changes on the car.

[AndrewF31]

Originally Posted by cdsvg

No news on the Estoril test yet? I hope they're as forthcoming with photos/videos as Peugeot were, even if there aren't any visible changes on the car.

Until Wednesday/Thursday, the truck was still parked in the middle of an empty paddock.

And today autumn arrived to Portugal with high winds and rain. Will go have a look on Tuesday what's going on.

[gwyllion]

Any news?

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Any news?

Tested today, some pics in this link (Go Andrew! )

[joeb]

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

Tested today, some pics in this link (Go Andrew! )

Looks like a wet track. Does anybody know if this was a general test, or were any new parts being tested so specifically?

[AndrewF31]

Originally Posted by joeb

Looks like a wet track. Does anybody know if this was a general test, or were any new parts being tested so specifically?

It was naturally wet and then even more on the race line by the Michelin truck.

Since multiple cars were there, I have a feeling this a general tyre test.

They all came out in formation for 4/5 laps and went back to the pits and the truck would go around the track wetting it again, and they would go out again. This was basically the whole routine since this morning until the afternoon.

I'm sure more will come out eventually, even though Audi didn't want to comment about these private tests.

Neutral GT cars, remains to be seen if behind them were professional teams or the manufacturer.

[gwyllion]

This was a wet and intermediate tyre test of Michelin. Earlier this month Michelin announced the following:

This week, MICHELIN and a number of its partners were at Aragon-Motorland, Spain, to evaluate new solutions for 2012. Audi, Porsche and Ferrari all attended this session which was given over to slick tyres.

A second test will be held at Estoril, Portugal, later this month when work will focus on the intermediate and rain tyres that will be used in next year’s different endurance racing championships, including the World Endurance Championship which will kick off at Sebring, Florida, in March.

source: http://www.lemanslive.com/en/2011/10...ting-in-spain/

[chernaudi]

Is it also worth noting that the R18 pictured was in LM bodywork instead of the current sprint bodywork?

And does this have any relevance to 2012 as Audi will have to modify the R18's bodywork with those fender well holes as they were testing 2012 spec tires? The irony of that is that Audi used to be the biggest offender of blowing out those louvers with the R10 and especially the R8, and the holes blown out were often as big or bigger than the ACO's recommended minimum size, though they're also asking for similar holes over the rear wheels, which is probably the more important variable.

[cdsvg]

If it was just a tyre test, my guess would be that they elected to use one of the test chassis (hence the lack of livery), which may not have had the latest aero bits on it.

[CTD]

Just read an interview with Tom Kristensen in the quarterly Audi magazine in Denmark, that the McNish accident happened because of poor visibility in the R18 (yes he said it), and also that the R18 is setup very aggressive because of the wide fronts, and therefor shifts a lot of weight to the front under braking, which pushes the driver to run more aggressive and braking very late. Tom believed this was the 3 explanations for the McNish Le Mans crash (poor visibility, aggressive driving and late braking). However the Rockenfeller crash he blamed solely on Kaufmann being inexperienced (this then being the official Audi explanation, no matter what Tom Believed himself)

[chernaudi]

So it's clear that Audi have visibility issues with the R18, yet haven't done much if anything about it.

There are reasons why even some of the most aerodynamically efficient World War II fighter aircraft used flat-panel windscreens--easier to make flat armorglass panels, and they're a ton easier to see though.

Problem is that the drivers will have to live with it until at least next season, unless the R18 hybrid uses the same exact tub as the current R18, which there's not much they can do to fix the windshield.

Did Tom say anything in specific about the vision (front or side, or at an angle?), or was it a general statement (Don't get any Audi mag in my area, and I'm not fluent in Danish)?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

So it's clear that Audi have visibility issues with the R18, yet haven't done much if anything about it.

There are reasons why even some of the most aerodynamically efficient World War II fighter aircraft used flat-panel windscreens--easier to make flat armorglass panels, and they're a ton easier to see though.

Problem is that the drivers will have to live with it until at least next season, unless the R18 hybrid uses the same exact tub as the current R18, which there's not much they can do to fix the windshield.

Did Tom say anything in specific about the vision (front or side, or at an angle?), or was it a general statement (Don't get any Audi mag in my area, and I'm not fluent in Danish)?

He did say that the visibility was a major factor in the R18 developments for next year and that they almost got it sorted.
He didn't mention anything about the curbed windshield but more that they where sitting so low in the car, and that made the visibility hard.
But he laid most pressure on the fact that the car was so aggressive.

[chernaudi]

Or could it be that the R18 is down about a 100 or so bhp compared to the R10/R15 family? Without that power, they had to maximize cornering speed to regain laptime, which we saw at PLM that the R18 and the new 908 were down about a good 10-15mph down the back straight compared to the older cars in '10, but ran roughly the same laptimes.

The R18 is clearly set up to maximize cornering and braking abilities, which is why they ran the wider front tires to begin with, and it seems that they feed each other a bit--the wider tires will automatically increase front grip, but that increased grip requires an optimal set up and, combined with the reduced straightline speeds, a more aggressive approach to the driving style and in traffic, and that is where the visibility issues come in.

I'm a bit surprised that TK didn't say anything about the windscreen, as that was rumored to be a source of some issues in the R18's early life, to the point where it was suggested that sections would have a plastic film over them to reduce distortion. But if Tom says it's not a big deal compared to sitting so low in the tub, I'll have to take his word for it--you don't win LM 8 times by not knowing what you're talking about.

Of course, that could be behind Allan and Tom's issues this year, as we know that Allan is a midget compared to the guys in the "young guns" car that won LM this year, and Tom's only a few inches taller than Allan.

[cdsvg]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

So it's clear that Audi have visibility issues with the R18, yet haven't done much if anything about it.

There are reasons why even some of the most aerodynamically efficient World War II fighter aircraft used flat-panel windscreens--easier to make flat armorglass panels, and they're a ton easier to see though.

The optical quality achievable back then was nothing like what it is today though. Look at the cockpit of an F16, for example.

Problem is that the drivers will have to live with it until at least next season, unless the R18 hybrid uses the same exact tub as the current R18, which there's not much they can do to fix the windshield.

I believe on all the current coupes the whole front windshield "bubble" just pops off, so there may be some adjustment possible without needing any changes whatsoever to the tub or any bodywork.

[AGD]

I'm not sure if this is news or not, but it sounds like Capello will compete at Le Mans in 2012. The speculation was that 2011 was his last race, but that may not be the case now. Also, the translation is a bit rough, but it sounds like Dindo is blaming the petrol teams for their lack of pace.

http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/132...rte-simoncelli

[The Badger]

To be honest , he is correct . It amazes me how few FSI/TFSI petrol engined machines there are , and why it took so long . possibily its an economic issue .

We had AMR with their Lola , and now Toyota are here ..... who else was there .

Glad about capello , brilliant driver and still sharp too .