Should Supercars Expand Into Asian Markets? (With Poll)

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Beages

One member continually finds a negative about any V8 Supercar related thread. That right there is a Troll.

Hardly makes someone a troll when they stay on topic and are expressing a personal opinion.

I have attended an ATCC/V8SC event at least once every year since the early 80s, including every race day of every Homebush 500 since 2009. Yet i post plenty of stuff i see negative about Supercars, and the Homebush event in particular.

You can have an interest in the series as a whole & have negative opinions on current issues without blowing smoke up the series backside 24/7

Originally Posted by Beages

Im guessing the majority of the posters on here can handle criticism of the category (me included) but when it consistently comes from one person day in day out, it gets tiring.

By the same token it gets tiring in return.

Just take a look at the Homebush thread about 2016 being the last event there. One of the mods would not post anything but repeatedly say the event should have continued regardless of the economic impact, and that DRT held all the answers for why the event was cancelled.

The wheel turns both ways, but it's easier to gang up on the one member who is willing to post a different opinion....apparently that is "trolling", not having a personal opinion.

This is a discussion forum, not a Supercar appreciation society

[Beages]

This is a discussion forum, not a Supercar appreciation society[/QUOTE]


Yes, thats exactly what my post is all about.......well done. Ive said my piece, I'm out.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Perhaps the mods should look at that.

Really can't be bothered. That would mean having to read it, and it's easily the dullest thread I've ever seen...

If people want to contribute go ahead, but nobody's convincing anybody else anyway. A bit like our Euro vote. A bunch of people quoting unsupported and questionable statistics and estimates of the future. Most of us just switched it off and made up our own minds.

[Compromised]

Can't see why you expand into Asia before having a second NZ race. Plenty of kiwi talent in the category vs how many Asian? Proven support base vs unknown support base. Very stable political/financial environment vs in some parts of Asia basically the opposite. Slightly less relevant but our culture is very similar to NZ, Asia not so much.

I think it's high time Supercars genuinely acknowledge just how "kiwi" it is. It's not just Scotty Mac,fabs,andre etc, it's super black, it's the kiwi mechanics, engineers etc. What better way to recognize this then an extra round or two in New Zealand

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Compromised

Can't see why you expand into Asia before having a second NZ race. Plenty of kiwi talent in the category vs how many Asian? Proven support base vs unknown support base. Very stable political/financial environment vs in some parts of Asia basically the opposite. Slightly less relevant but our culture is very similar to NZ, Asia not so much.

I think it's high time Supercars genuinely acknowledge just how "kiwi" it is. It's not just Scotty Mac,fabs,andre etc, it's super black, it's the kiwi mechanics, engineers etc. What better way to recognize this then an extra round or two in New Zealand

Tend to agree, 2nd NZ round makes a lot of sense, always a good crowd, however thet would want to hold a second round in nZ while they are there (due to transport cost) and I reckon that might divide the crowd rather than increasing it

Population of Thailand 68M
Population of Malaysia 30M
Population of Bali 4.2M (although obviusly this one is about massive tourism from Aussies)
Population of NZ 4.7M

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Tend to agree, 2nd NZ round makes a lot of sense, always a good crowd, however thet would want to hold a second round in nZ while they are there (due to transport cost) and I reckon that might divide the crowd rather than increasing it

This is always the problem, it would be awesome to do a double header and do Pukekohe and a South Island race, Highlands Park anyone... But the overriding concensus seems to be that it will split the crowd so nobody wins.

The other problem I guess comparing NZ to an Asian round is that we can't really see multinational "activations" which can be seen to increase value, and we can't try to sign new deals with broadcasters or anybody as the market is already quite settled and saturated.

[one five five]

Wasn't there mention in the past when a second NZ round had been mentioned, that the current deal with the FIA didn't allow for two rounds in the same country outside Australia?

That might have changed, but i definitely think if you are looking for another overseas event, then a second NZ event would have to be a target.

In the past back to back weekends at Wellington and Pukekohe were hugely popular.

[Langers]

Originally Posted by dsg

Unfortunately the excellent Buriram circuit is located in one of the poorest regions of the country and a fair distance from Bangkok. About a 5 or 6 hour bus ride from memory.

Are the local trauma facilities up to scratch?

[Tourer]

In the meantime, Rugby League State of Origin is expanding into "foreign" markets with a game to be played in Perth: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/l...14-gq5zuz.html

With no NRL team in Perth these days, there won't be an obvious existing fanbase but the NRL clearly sees this as an opportunity to showcase the game to effectively a new market and possibly grow the overall fanbase for the sport.

The state government in WA simply see it as a good event for Perth to host.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Tourer

With no NRL team in Perth these days, there won't be an obvious existing fanbase but the NRL clearly sees this as an opportunity to showcase the game to effectively a new market and possibly grow the overall fanbase for the sport.

Perth is equally a rugby town as it is an AFL town, from a grass roots perspective, but in the last 10 years or so AFL has become really strong.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Perth is equally a rugby town as it is an AFL town, from a grass roots perspective, but in the last 10 years or so AFL has become really strong.

True, but Rugby & Rugby League are different games and usually some difference in the demographic - although they are really quite similar in reality.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Mixer

The other problem I guess comparing NZ to an Asian round is that we can't really see multinational "activations" which can be seen to increase value, and we can't try to sign new deals with broadcasters or anybody as the market is already quite settled and saturated.

One thing to balance with the suggestion of "multi national activations" in other markets is to have an understanding of who the current sponsor is. For example. 888 is this Red Bull Australia's promotional budget that supports the team or is it that of a wider Red Bull Asia Pacific or International promotional department.

If it is Red Bull Australia's $$$ how does more international races do anything for their investment?

An example of international expansion working against teams retaining & developing sponsorship is Penske and Marlboro in CART during the early 2000's.

As CART expanded far and wide into Europe, South America and Australia - Marlboro became less satisfied as it was its USA arm that was providing the $$$. The longer this went on the more concerned they were about losing opportunities to connect with its customer base in the USA.

The ultimate outcome was Roger Penske making the move from CART to the All American only IRL series in 2002.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

One thing to balance with the suggestion of "multi national activations" in other markets is to have an understanding of who the current sponsor is. For example. 888 is this Red Bull Australia's promotional budget that supports the team or is it that of a wider Red Bull Asia Pacific or International promotional department.

Plenty of multinationals did special activations around the China & Bahrain rounds, teams even had specific sponsorship deals with local branding of their particular sponsor.

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

The ultimate outcome was Roger Penske making the move from CART to the All American only IRL series in 2002.

While I don't doubt the fact that a US sponsor would prefer to have more US rounds, all of them were still televised, and it is ridiculous to pin this switch on a sponsor issue alone - the split from '96 onwards was a massive deal and the Champcar series didn't last much longer after Penske left - I'd posit the split and subsequent split in audience and races had a much bigger part to play than Marlboro.

Even if true I don't think Supercars is in a similar position as still the vast majority of their rounds are in home territory. Around the same balance as the reunited Indycar series that Marlboro were part of until 2010.

[dsg]

Originally Posted by Langers

Are the local trauma facilities up to scratch?

Good question. It is a FIA Grade 1 and FIM Grade A circuit so I would imagine there are good facilities on site.

[Ospi]

Originally Posted by dsg

Good question. It is a FIA Grade 1 and FIM Grade A circuit so I would imagine there are good facilities on site.

Yep, raced there a few times and facilities are as good if not better than the majority of the supercar calendar.

There's also an airport very close which commercial airlines can land so it's easy for spectators coming from abroad.

[Compromised]

You have to take note of history and Supercars history of overseas excursions seems to be one and done, or sometimes cancelled before it's even run. I guess depending on your goals one off international rounds each season might be an excellent "brand activation" exercise, but if the goal has been international expansion than you'd have to say it's been an abject failure.

[Mixer]

Balanced against that though, racing in China and Bahrain did increase the international prestige of the championship plus they pocketed a clean $1m every time they went.

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[Tourer]

If the new management at VASC can make Asian races work then I'm all for it. For sure there are lessons to be learned from previous forays and those experiences should give the new management plenty of information on what worked and what didn't.

The markets concerned are looking for entertainment products and VASC provides such a product and I guess we'll see how it all pans out.

You raise a good point DRT re sponsors and where they are based and it's true that not all sponsors are going to see the benefits of races outside Oz (doesn't mean they'll walk away necessarily). However, there ARE sponsors who can increase their involvement in the category if their financial input is spread across several markets. For example, a current subsidiary sponsor on a team could possibly expand to full naming rights with income from other markets and those other markets would want to promote their brand's involvement, thus promoting the series.

I do think that for this kind of "shared market" contribution from sponsors, the races need to be more than one-offs so that the sponsors can plan and commit, knowing that the series is coming to their market. It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation but I can see it working.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Balanced against that though, racing in China and Bahrain did increase the international prestige of the championship plus they pocketed a clean $1m every time they went.

Did it increase the international prestige? I mean, where is the evidence to support such a statement?

Could one equally suggest that the one off event and subsequent fallout actually hurt the prestige of the championship?

Originally Posted by Tourer

However, there ARE sponsors who can increase their involvement in the category if their financial input is spread across several markets. For example, a current subsidiary sponsor on a team could possibly expand to full naming rights with income from other markets and those other markets would want to promote their brand's involvement, thus promoting the series.

Yes this could definitely possibly happen. I guess more post was more to suggest that it is not a given that V8SC should rely upon for all sponsors and teams to be automatically on board with.

Originally Posted by Tourer

I do think that for this kind of "shared market" contribution from sponsors, the races need to be more than one-offs so that the sponsors can plan and commit, knowing that the series is coming to their market. It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation but I can see it working.

And that is obvious concern for any sponsor that is looking to utilise investment from multiple markets - where is the sustainability from these events? Its expensive and wasted if its a one off and the current form of V8SC in delivering international events sustain-ably is sketchy at best.

[GTRMagic]

If the teams dont pay, who really cares if it is expensive to stage?

[D.R.T.]

Expensive for teams and sponsors who invest in activations and/or increase in sponsorship for a one off event that gives them no sustainable return. For example China

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Did it increase the international prestige? I mean, where is the evidence to support such a statement?

Most of what you can read is fluff, but I recall plenty of other categories talking about it at the time. Certainly 2004/2005 it added to the gloss of the series, in my belief.

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Could one equally suggest that the one off event and subsequent fallout actually hurt the prestige of the championship?

I don't see how that is true, the cancellations came from the venue side in both cases, so I don't see how you could "blame" V8s for the lack of success. The races they put on were pretty good, and I thought they would have made for good overseas TV.

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Expensive for teams and sponsors who invest in activations and/or increase in sponsorship for a one off event that gives them no sustainable return. For example China

I don't see that this argument stacks up at all, some of the teams ran different colour schemes, but they had all their costs covered and took $1m split between the teams for each event so it is definitely not a failure from a financial perspective.

I guess all of these events were trying to increase tourism by getting an overseas product televised from their locations, but the cars looked fantastic running around on an F1 circuit even if they were not renewed.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Expensive for teams and sponsors who invest in activations and/or increase in sponsorship for a one off event that gives them no sustainable return. For example China

In marketing, in a saturated market, there is no such thing as a sustainable return.. which is why marketing communications and activations change so regularly. New news sells. That's about all there is to get

[Langers]

Originally Posted by dsg

Good question. It is a FIA Grade 1 and FIM Grade A circuit so I would imagine there are good facilities on site.

Not so much concerned about whether there are good medical facilities on site (really even for F1 they just have a basic OT and casualty equipment at the track's medical centre), but rather by how the local hospital is equipped for life-threatening injuries (think Hinchcliff, Zanardi, Bianchi etc)

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Mixer

I don't see how that is true, the cancellations came from the venue side in both cases, so I don't see how you could "blame" V8s for the lack of success. The races they put on were pretty good, and I thought they would have made for good overseas TV.

The venues cancelled the events due to the catastrophic financial situation that the V8 events left them in. ie not enough people paid for tickets to make the events sustainable.

A series of one off international events that were announced as part of a long term partnership and subsequently called off after 1 race do not contribute favourably to the image of V8SC - no matter which way its spun.

Originally Posted by Mixer

I don't see that this argument stacks up at all, some of the teams ran different colour schemes, but they had all their costs covered and took $1m split between the teams for each event so it is definitely not a failure from a financial perspective.

The post was in reference to the suggestion (I think maybe by Tourer) that international events could and has contributed to sponsors increasing their $$$ investment + additional marketing activation in local areas. We are not talking about teams operational (travel and accommodation) expenses here.

Originally Posted by Mixer

I guess all of these events were trying to increase tourism by getting an overseas product televised from their locations, but the cars looked fantastic running around on an F1 circuit even if they were not renewed.

Well as long as the cars looked fantastic that is all that matters.