Chevron B21

[driftwood]

DAN
Do you mean the 2 or 3 lads who raced Ingliston B19 21 23 Cars circa 77 ?

I was meaning the original 72 car owners It was Welpton/ Smith i was trying to recall

[Dan Rear]

Yeah the Ingliston men, DW. They tended to share the car, 1 in the Sports GT race, the other using it in the Libre. Might have been Dave Phillip and Richard something OTOH.

[driftwood]

yes i have those listed on my list of driver owners of cars ( not 100% sure which cars they had ) no i was refering to the original owners of cars
there was Tucket/Fletcher and Welpton Smith who had B21 "new" in 72
The AS wanted advert said previous owner would like to purchase B21 chassis number DBE168 last known owner Andrew Fletcher in 73 car then painted yellow
contact is phone or write to an address in East Lothian

Ive forgotton how to post photos here for u to see the advert

so is the man asking to buy his "B16" car back?
I thought Tucket/Fletcher had their B16 from new?
P261 BRM will pipe up soon

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by driftwood

yes i have those listed on my list of driver owners of cars ( not 100% sure which cars they had ) no i was refering to the original owners of cars
there was Tucket/Fletcher and Welpton Smith who had B21 "new" in 72
The AS wanted advert said previous owner would like to purchase B21 chassis number DBE168 last known owner Andrew Fletcher in 73 car then painted yellow
contact is phone or write to an address in East Lothian

Ive forgotton how to post photos here for u to see the advert

so is the man asking to buy his "B16" car back?
I thought Tucket/Fletcher had their B16 from new?
P261 BRM will pipe up soon

If you want.. Smith/Welpton DBE 21-3 built by Peter Smith/David Welpton with some parts aquired from the remains of Humbles B16Spyder/19.
DBE 21/3 chassis built Arch Motors.
Humbles' replacement car in spite of being listed as a B19/31 was in fact a B21 in every respect, including centre section of chassis.
Tuckett/Fletcher B16 from new, converted 19 rebuilt as 16 and still in their ownership. The conversion of B16 to 19 is not as straight forward as it first may appear. The entire outer sill construction has to be removed/replaced, along with pedal mountings and suspention mountings. Too many Chevrons [and other marques] are being claimed to be 'Original' cars, for most they are not, and apart from the fabled chassis plate are no different from a 'continuation car'. This argument will rage on ad infinitum.

[allenbrown]

Question for p261brm. Now I've found the first owner of all but one of the factory B19s, it appears that at least two of the B19s that ran in 1971 were conversions of crashed B16s.

One was the Arthur Blank's Opel-powered car and the other was the Wicky/Michel Dupont car. Both Blank and Wicky had owned B16s and crashed them. Assuming local Chevron agent Siffert was able to provide components, is it feasible that these Swiss sports car teams could have converted their B16s to B19 spec?

The reason for the question is that another possibility is that these two B19s came into Switzerland from Italy where Eris Tondelli bought more B19s than can easily be accounted for. I'm try to work out which is the most likely, rebuilt B16s or Swiss B19s.

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Question for p261brm. Now I've found the first owner of all but one of the factory B19s, it appears that at least two of the B19s that ran in 1971 were conversions of crashed B16s.

One was the Arthur Blank's Opel-powered car and the other was the Wicky/Michel Dupont car. Both Blank and Wicky had owned B16s and crashed them. Assuming local Chevron agent Siffert was able to provide components, is it feasible that these Swiss sports car teams could have converted their B16s to B19 spec?

The reason for the question is that another possibility is that these two B19s came into Switzerland from Italy where Eris Tondelli bought more B19s than can easily be accounted for. I'm try to work out which is the most likely, rebuilt B16s or Swiss B19s.

Possible yes, probably no. To complete conversion satifactory chassis would have been jigged. Part of the B16 sill construction as originaly built is spot welded, though some sills have been riveted. Sifferts' most likely to have been returned to Arch via Bolton.

[p261brm]

Addendum:-
Though strictly OT for this particular thread, it is relevant to conversions from an original B16 chassis to 19, 21. I have spent some time this last week giving a redundant but to all intents an extremely original B16 chassis a very close inspection. The stamped/engraved chassis numbers are where they should be, there has been some repair work over the years, but the chassis is beyond further use due to quite severe corrosion. There is though, just a 'niggle feeling' about it that it leaves me with doubt as to being one chassis. The point I make is the phrase 'an original car' it is one I would be very carefull of putting my signature on.

[p261brm]

Addendum & Up-date
Having re-read the fore going, a clarification of the 'converstion' from 19 to 21. The basic chassis is similar, apart from the centre section and rear upper suspension mounts, to accommodate camber change. The main difference is body work as required by the 1972 change in regulations, whereby the cars were protoypes. intended for production,
This added the rear wheels being contained within the body. At Villa Real hastily added mud flaps, later this was achieved by bolt on mouldings.
I will post some photos. Originally no headlights were fitted, but organisers/scrutineers soon twigged on to that. The first 'works' design were angled tubes mounted on the outside of the nose. Horrible, I reversed them and fitted them inside with oval appetures, Tony Galland [Red Rose]went one better and made them rectangular and that became standard.
The two litre championship did not require all the extra mudguards headlights, FIA brain waves have not improved.

[p261brm]

Villa Real, pic shows hastily made and attached rear 'mud flaps' Also the additions to wheel arch, later mouldings were wider.



Spa 1000ks shows Chevron 'works' rear body modification.

[james s]

Looking for colour pictures of Emilio Zapico's Garvey sherry sponsored B21/23 at the 400km de Barcelona and of any other races in 1973. Any help would be great.

[allenbrown]

I'll see what I can find.

This was the Promoto B21/23 wasn't it? The ex-Burton, ex-Howlings car or Robinson's car? Do you have this car today?

[james s]

My father Andrew Schryver owns the car,we are trying to decide what livery to run it and as what spec i.e B21 or B23.The car runs at the moment as a wingless B23.To run the car as the Burton B21 Cannon car we would need to run with a B19 nose,but since the car was upgraded to B23 spec in period we think maybe we should run it as the B23 Garvey sherry car.

[allenbrown]

Nice choice, assuming pictures can be found. Have you checked the Montjuich book? Even if it doesn't have a picture, it may give you a photographer's name. There's nothing in the Naviaux book.

Have you established where this car went after 1973?

[james s]

The car is pictured in the Montjuich park book except in black and white.We think the car went or ended up in Italy as we have bodywork with an Italian drivers name (Scalleti) off the top of my head.

[allenbrown]

James

I just spoke to the next owner of your car after Paulenco and I might be able to explain a few mysteries about it. This owner acquired a reconditioned updates frame for the car from Arch Motors and had it panelled at Bolton. He then ran it for 1974 and 1975 before selling it on.

Email me at allen@oldracingcars.com if you want to swap info on the car.

Cheers
Allen

[BritishV8]

I've pretty much drawn a blank in researching the early history of this particular Chevron B21... but what I have is included in this new article along with about eighty close-up color photos of design, restoration, and preparation details. I hope you find it interesting and useful. Please let me know if you spot any inaccuracies or can help me fill in the blanks. I'll be happy to make it better. Thanks!

Bob Machinist's Chevron B21 Racecar

[henk4]

A car with plate DBE-72-17 also runs in Europe for quite a long time in the Classic Endurance racing series, under French ownership, painted metallic blue. So if the red car is still red (I saw it in 2007 at Laguna Seca) there are two cars with #17, with distinctly different chassis plates. But these are Chevrons....

I wanted to upload pictures, but there seems to be a problem.

[H_Fletch]

Originally Posted by p261brm

Tuckett/Fletcher B16 from new, converted 19 rebuilt as 16 and still in their ownership. The conversion of B16 to 19 is not as straight forward as it first may appear. The entire outer sill construction has to be removed/replaced, along with pedal mountings and suspention mountings.

Resurrecting a very old thread but my father is Andrew Fletcher and he and Willie Tuckett do indeed still own their B16. It was sold to Canada, hardly used and they regretted selling it and they bought it back after two years as a B19 and ran it as such for a few seasons (I don't believe it had the full B19 conversion however with the front end) It was rebodied back to its B16 roots and still lives in his garage in Scotland today. If anyone is interested I can find out more details from him but that's how I remember it.

[H_Fletch]

On a different note I now own B19-12a which is one of the Tondelli cars and on the original FIA papers I have it is listed as the car Bonetto/Alberti competed in the '72 Targa Florio with, the entry however seems to list the car as being a B21 but I can only assume it is the same car as the 19/21 entries/reporting seem so muddled.