[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by JAG__

A look at the '14 P1 regs.

Nice surprise, big rear wings are back!

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newssept12.html

Nice, finally!

[deggis]

Almost...

[Canada ALMS fan]

Press conference for the 2014 LMP1 regs just after Fuji WEC Qualy.

[TF110]

Wider, taller cockpits, and slimmer cars isn't an improvement IMO.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by TF110

Wider, taller cockpits, and slimmer cars isn't an improvement IMO.

This is how the new American series retains ties to Le Mans, the DPs are coming!

[Simmi]

Doesn't sound like we'll even notice the differences in 2014. It's not what you'd call sweeping changes. I wasn't expecting huge modifications, but I thought we'd see more than this.

[Creep89]

johndagys: ACO Tech Chief Vincent Beaumesnil also told me the Toyota "Wheel Arch" will not be banned for 2013!

Ah come on.. It will be interesting to see what Audi does.

[gwyllion]

That is a bit of a surprise to me. I expected that the ACO would plug the loophole that Toyota has found. Like they did in the past with the creative aerodynamic elements of the R15. The double end plate looks silly and it is clearly not in line with the spirit of the rules.

[Creep89]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

That is a bit of a surprise to me. I expected that the ACO would plug the loophole that Toyota has found. Like they did in the past with the creative aerodynamic elements of the R15. The double end plate looks silly and it is clearly not in line with the spirit of the rules.

For me it looks like a special gift to Toyota.

[gwyllion]

According to Vasselon it is not difficult for other teams to develop a similar solution.

However, this decision affects all the other LMP1 and LMP2 manufacturers. They have to get back to drawing board to develop this double end plate trick, just for one season. That is a waste of resources.

[Coopz21 x]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

That is a bit of a surprise to me. I expected that the ACO would plug the loophole that Toyota has found. Like they did in the past with the creative aerodynamic elements of the R15. The double end plate looks silly and it is clearly not in line with the spirit of the rules.

:L and you say the Audi aerodynamics where fine i guess? Silly German

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Coopz21 x

:L and you say the Audi aerodynamics where fine i guess? Silly German

The R15 passed scrutineering in 2009, but it had to be changed for 2010. I expected the same deal with the TS030.

BTW You need to learn a bit about geography:
= Germany != Belgium =

[MitchZ06]

Don't worry gwyllion, he's a tool on the FLMS site aswell...

[lms]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

That is a bit of a surprise to me. I expected that the ACO would plug the loophole that Toyota has found. Like they did in the past with the creative aerodynamic elements of the R15. The double end plate looks silly and it is clearly not in line with the spirit of the rules.

the cars will be narrower in '14 so they should just bring back that wide rear wing. (as wide as the car, thats 1900mm i think)

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by lms

the cars will be narrower in '14 so they should just bring back that wide rear wing. (as wide as the car, thats 1900mm i think)

They have for 2014.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

According to Vasselon it is not difficult for other teams to develop a similar solution.

However, this decision affects all the other LMP1 and LMP2 manufacturers. They have to get back to drawing board to develop this double end plate trick, just for one season. That is a waste of resources.

It's a very poor decision, especially for the reason you just mentioned.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

It's a very poor decision, especially for the reason you just mentioned.

Furthermore, Audi was convinced that it would get banned. See http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...36#post3125536

This decision will only hurt the privateers. And then there is talk that the privateer LMP1 will get some performance breaks (bigger restrictor and/or less weight) in order to get a bit closer to Audi and Toyota. So they will need to do even more (expensive) developments during the winter

BTW do you think that Audi can implement this loophole? The R18 rear wing sticks out behind the car...

[lms]

Originally Posted by JAG__

A look at the '14 P1 regs.

Nice surprise, big rear wings are back!

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newssept12.html

no mention of the "movable aero" that was in the pdf about the 2014 regs. (movable diveplanes)

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Furthermore, Audi was convinced that it would get banned. See http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...36#post3125536

This decision will only hurt the privateers. And then there is talk that the privateer LMP1 will get some performance breaks (bigger restrictor and/or less weight) in order to get a bit closer to Audi and Toyota. So they will need to do even more (expensive) developments during the winter

BTW do you think that Audi can implement this loophole? The R18 rear wing sticks out behind the car...

Yes, developments that are useful for one year only at that as well...

Yes, Audi has had that solution in the wind tunnel for a couple of months.

[JAG__]

Originally Posted by lms

no mention of the "movable aero" that was in the pdf about the 2014 regs. (movable diveplanes)

Mike didn't list everything, last I read in Racecar Engineering this was a neccessary change as it would negate the need for different Le Mans and sprint noses so reduce costs.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Furthermore, Audi was convinced that it would get banned. See http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...36#post3125536

More recently: http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...-ralf-juttner/

Q: Following the apparent success of Toyota’s controversial ‘wheel arch’, has Audi considered adopting something similar?

JUTTNER: We will not invest in something like that for the last two or three races of the year. You will not see it from us and honestly, I believe that next year, you won't see it at all anymore.

They will change the rules in a way as they did from 2009 to 2010, when in 2009 the R15 was declared legal. It was protested by Peugeot but the protest was dismissed. But over the winter, the ACO changed the rules so that the R15 from 2009 would not be [legal] anymore, so we had to do a major change to the R15 plus.

With [Toyota's] wing, I'm pretty sure it will be the same because this is not what [the ACO/FIA] wants. Toyota obviously found a clever loophole, as did we with the R15, and that's what the game is all about.

[gucom]

^ now that's a mature, balanced response!

[MagVanisher]

Looks like those LMPs would be almost like closed-wheel and cockpit F1 cars.

At least they'll have big wings, but no rotaries to compete due to fuel problems.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by JAG__

Mike didn't list everything, last I read in Racecar Engineering this was a neccessary change as it would negate the need for different Le Mans and sprint noses so reduce costs.

Movable aero consists of the ability adjust the front wing flap. It isn't movable in the sense of active aero. Under Art 3.5.4 there is now this provision:

"It is permitted to add one wing profile adjustable by means of tools."

[Flo aus N]

Well, but there is still one big question: "Does this solution work in Le Mans ?" There you need a low drag setup to create a good top speed. Toyota had a good top speed at Le Mans, but after that they have a disadvantage of 5-10 kmh (in Fuji it was 10kmh), which is a direct effect of their bodywork.