Chevron B21

[allenbrown]

We should aim to document how much of each B16 went into the B19; how much B19 went into the B21 and so on. That won't often be mentioned in period so we'll need to find former owners and ask them. We may never get to 100% coverage but at least we can make a start.

For example, we have seen a B16 where only the wheels went into a B21 with the other 98% of the car going to the US. We've now seen a B19 where everything except the chassis plate went into the B21. We also know about the Humble B16S/B19 saga and more will emerge. The Red Rose cars will probably be the hardest.

A higher priority however is to simply track each car owner by owner and see where we get. The B19s are progressing well and the B21s will doubtless follow at their own pace.

[p261brm]

In most cases an 'owner' followed the development produced by the works or larger teams. Most of the races were at least 500kms and reliability out weighed out right performance. As for detail differances between 19, 21 and 23 have been well documented, body, power units, materials and regulations but in reality no two cars were the same as owners/teams/mechanics added their own, as they thought, particular improvments. I personally left the 2 litre sports car scene at the end of 73 and these cars went on for a good while.

[driftwood]

Just had long chat with Brian Robinson about his B21 and b19 cars see other thread for more info
B21#4 was built out of the ex ken Walker B16#7 he had bought after he had sold his b16#4 car to Fred Opert in usa in 71
The B16 was sent to Chevron to be built into a B21
2 August 73 Autosport advert he advertises his B21 for sale BUT he cannot recall who he sold it to
he also had bought the ex Dart B19 from sprinter Frank Aston to race
this car was sold to bob h then to japan

[p261brm]

Interesting, did Robbo buy Walkers 16 from Ken direct? 07 was the Red Rose 16 of those goings on memory absolutely 100%. Drifty should have a copy photo at Croft of Walker's car behind Humble's 16/19 and yours truly. Also noted Robbo's 21 has same number 4 carnets again? Would bet on it.

[p261brm]

Just a thought; Isn't there a B16 in the US of A with chassis B16#7?

[driftwood]

Yes Brian said he bought the car direct from ken walker( i have seen his advert for sale in 71/72 AS ads) i wonder how Chevron came togive BR chassi 4 on his B21 car? was it a by chance fluke or did they refer to their build list and his 1st b16#4 and tie it in
the carnet would say B16#4 rather than Chevron #4 so it would not tie into carnet

Im sure i read ken walker racing special saloons after the B16 was sold

[allenbrown]

Might be coincidence on this occasion. The B21 chassis list roughly matches the order in which they appear so the numbers don't appear to be manipulated.

[allenbrown]

Just noticed the debut of Phil Scragg's "brand new and unsorted" Chevron B21 at Prescott (MN 7 Sep 1972 p28) running in the same class as Bancroft and Phillips in their B19s.

[driftwood]

is it possibly B21-72-27 as per the car for sale in usa advert i sent to you

[driftwood]

Just read in AS may 75 for sale B21-72-1 car is hillclimbing and for sale from Mike Fowler weston super mare
Steve any info on the hillclimber?

[allenbrown]

Is the car identified as B21-72-1 in the advert?

[driftwood]

do you think i would make it up or take a wild guess !!

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by driftwood

Just read in AS may 75 for sale B21-72-1 car is hillclimbing and for sale from Mike Fowler weston super mare
Steve any info on the hillclimber?

Whilst trawling through current paperwork from the period I have spotted that on 10th Nov '73 Frank Aston (Chevron Groper) finished 2nd in class at a Silverstone sprint and on 17th Nov Aston again finished 2nd in class at Silverstone in his Gropa Sports.

I also checked Uphill Racers and the Black Book and in all three sources there was no sign what-so-ever of a B21 in 1974/75. There was a Chevron B21/23 running in sprints in 1978 - Driver Geoff Breakell/Engine FVC.

I'll email a couple of contacts and see what they can come up with.

[driftwood]

I have found AS advert from Frank aston in 74 selling Gropa and another sports racer poss Landar he did also run an Astra after the B19 car was sold

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

I'll email a couple of contacts and see what they can come up with.

First response & they think that Mike Fowler raced at Castle Combe rather than did speed events. The question then would be did he race the B21 or was that something he acquired or was he selling it for someone?

I'll let you know the outcome of the second enquiry.

[p261brm]

Im sure i read ken walker racing special saloons after the B16 was sold[/quote]

Don't know about saloons after B16 what I do know is he was Wendy Wools Championship winner with a mini before the 16. After the 16 he bought a F.... Dino [being a Red Car self control at limit], used to mate about with John Bosomworth et al [McLaren F5000] Took loss of his brother Howard in a sidecar race badly, marriage broke up and last I heard living in Pately Bridge.

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Might be coincidence on this occasion. The B21 chassis list roughly matches the order in which they appear so the numbers don't appear to be manipulated.

To ponder on; Cassis numbers, Original chassis book still in comrade Owen's care, I presume, Chevron Cars plate pop riveted in prominent position with number clear on panel work not actual chassis, did plate always receive number from chassis? Arch Motors remember not Chevron produced.

[driftwood]

can you get comrade Owen drunk enough to get him to open the book or do we need coke and hooker?
I have the cola diet or sugar free?

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Is the car identified as B21-72-1 in the advert?

Originally Posted by driftwood

do you think i would make it up or take a wild guess !!

I think that you might have seen a car advertised as "ex-Fletcher" and extrapolated.

The question still stands - was it identified as B21-72-1 in the advert?

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by driftwood

can you get comrade Owen drunk enough to get him to open the book or do we need coke and hooker?
I have the cola diet or sugar free?

Maybe, I doubt incentives such as you suggest would work, Vin did have access but following disagreements re who owns what etc who knows. Have contact number or via usual channel. I'll test the water.

[driftwood]

IF i saw advert as ex Fletcher i would have used the words "for sale B21 ex Fletcher" and do not use words with more than 4 syllables with me!

i was being precise with the facts as i saw them with my own eyes your honour

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by p261brm

Maybe, I doubt incentives such as you suggest would work, Vin did have access but following disagreements re who owns what etc who knows. Have contact number or via usual channel. I'll test the water.

Could you email me first? There's something I'd like to share with you that I'm not yet able to make public.

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by driftwood

IF i saw advert as ex Fletcher i would have used the words "for sale B21 ex Fletcher" and do not use words with more than 4 syllables with me!

i was being precise with the facts as i saw them with my own eyes your honour

I know Dean Butler quite well could try to get you a discount at vision express

[driftwood]

can i assume that the Fletcher B21-2 car is sold and he buys pukka b23?
or does he actually retain b21 into 73/4 season and dresses car as b23 body and enters as b21/23 all through these years
can get 2 for 1 at specsavers

[allenbrown]

Assume nothing, question everything.