No F1 for Villeneuve in 2004

[Armco Bender]

"These last two years, I often felt exhausted. These difficult seasons worn me out

16 Grand Prixs @ 2hrs each = 32hours work.
32 hours work a year and the poor wee guys are tired,these modern day F1 drivers need to harden up a bit....

[Kirk]

Thats a very good point. CP will always be a friend of JV but the situation with BAR rubbed many the wrong way and subsequently added to the animosity toward Jacques. Unfortunate that CP was even allowed to get away with playing both sides of the fence.

[Wrex]

Armco, I think they do a little more than 32 hours work.

I think JV was referring to mental tiredness rather than physical.

[Wrex]

More of the interview

As for a return, Villeneuve admits it is a possibility, but on his terms.

He added: "It would be for my own pleasure, not to have a career.

“Not for pressure, not to say ‘hi’ to people and not to be politically correct because of a sponsor. I don't have to do that."

Arrogant to the bitter end.

I'm sure with the that attitude, the top teams will be falling all overthemselves to sign him.

Look out Monty, you may have your contract ripped up.

[Armco Bender]

Armco, I think they do a little more than 32 hours work.

Yeah,but for $25 million a year I could be very enthusiastic about my job.

[Irv the Swerve]

Originally posted by Kirk
Re: " Kirk, in all fairness, there are nine other teams lacking interest as well? Are they 'inept jerks' as well? As fot the prime of his career, I think that was 97"

Amazing isn't it!! Jacques has never been accepted by the F1 elitists. How dare he come over from North America and be competitive. How dare he challenge Schumi and beat him as a sophomore in '97 (and a relative rookie really). What a blessing that he chose to gamble and start BAR from scratch and fail. Now, at 32 he has suddenly lost it? DR has managed to convince many a fan that that is so? But the F1 owners, I don't think so. In North American sport there is a word describing this; its called collusion. The F1 teams, in particular those out of the top 3 just need competitive drivers, not necessarily the quickest ... and preferably yes men who say exactly what they're told to say and who bring with them big sponsorship bucks. Pathetic !

Have a day off Kirk.
JV wasn't accepted by the F1 elitists? - who are they then? How about Frank Williams, who gave him a job and a position from which he could win the title - or Honda, who tried to build a team around him. It's not like he was always groomed for F1 or that he was lauded all round when he first got to F1 and started to put it up to Damon Hill. He had an instant goodwill factor because he was fresh, a small bit irreverant and had 'The Name'. As for challenging Schumacher, people have been crying out for that for years, if Villeneuve was going to be the man, people would have been thrilled.

It was his choice (guided by his manager/boss) to join BAR, and it turned out to be a disaster. The F1 elite didn't force him to leave Willams, Frank Williams didn't force him to leave Williams, North American cynicism didn't force him to leave Williams...who knows what did, but he was not forced. He hasn't suddenly lost it at 32 either. He hasn't performed as well as his mouth since about midway through 2000 and his has been trying to catch his ego ever since.He didn't beat Panis, and was beaten by Button.

Originally posted by Kirk
DR has managed to convince many a fan that that is so? But the F1 owners, I don't think so

I don't get that statement. DR has not renewed his contract because he didn't think he was worth it - which is fair enough, thats his job. As to how has has managed to convince many a fan, I'm unsure. Most fans watch the races on a Sunday, most fans saw Villeneuve struggle consistantly for the last few seasons. Avid fans have also heard his inane/bland/boring/arrogant/tiresome statements of how good he is, and how he needs a more competitive car to show how good he is or how everyone is out to get him. Dave Richards didn't convince me (an ex-JV fan) of anything. As far as the F1 owners go, are these the same F1 owners who were falling over each other to give the great Jacques a job for this season? Even the back of the grid doesn't want to know about the guy.

Your last statement is the most accurate in your post. I don't think its pathetic as such, but I do mourn the need for robots with money to drive the corporate billboards that make up a large portion of the grid. Of course there has to be commercial involvement,increasingly so and even cripplingly so, but a lot of the spirit and soul has been lost in my opinion.

[Gt_R]

Kirk.

Nobody dislike JV because he challenged Hill and then beat MS in the 97 championship. Nobody dislike JV because they can't stand the way he came from NA and is competitve.

He dug his own grave with the help of his friend Craig. He wanted to go to a team, to build a team up with his friend. Whatever the motive, it failed.

You can disregard DR in anyway you like, but fact is, his arrival and the way he handled the team brought it forward in the right directions. He's employment of key people had worked it's magic. Team owners don't have to listen to DR to decide how good JV is..they can see. And like it or not, DR is a far more effective and goal orientated manager than Craig can ever hope for.

You think that he was sabotaged in BAR under DR? Nobody seem to bother much when JV enjoyed exclusive previlges at BAR at his teammate's expense does it?

Your statements against the F1 teams is unjustified. I dare say that the top 3 teams have drivers the equal, if not better than, JV without them kicking up a fuss, and that none of the top 4 teams, the exact seats which JV is aiming for, depend on sponsorship money to decide their drivers. They're decision of not hiring JV speaks volumes.

I agree that robotic drivers are a bore, but if somebody speaks constantly just trying to inflate his own ego, irritating everyone else with pointless remarks (such as the unneccessary belittling of teammates), and constant complaints that he's being sabotaged, having totally no ability to reflect on his own performance, then sound as if F1 needs him, i'm sorry to say that he's wrong, and i'd rather go for a bore.

He said he would quit if Button beat him. Button beat him...but JV didn't quit...he wasn't wanted.

If he does find a place back into F1 based on his merits, i'd gladly see him back.

[Redblurr]

He will not only be sorely missed for his contribution to F1 over the past five years - but also his wit

[Kirk]

Irv, it was led by Ron Dennis who dismissed JV before he raced a single moment in F1. And GT-R, I don't recall JV ever claiming sabotage, his fans maybe. In fact, after constantly being let down by his engineers, he would usually put a positive spin on the ineptness of his team. I don't call using terms like "its very frustrating" and "we must improve" as pointless remarks or belittling anyone. If you are referring to his statement that Button must prove himself on the track. That was obvious as JB, after all the press he had received and was still receiving, had not lived up to his billing. In fact I think that helped Button turn himself around as 2003 was by far his best season in F1.
And yes I agree DR may be a better team principal than CP but I fail to see how anyone can say he has done a good job. For 2 years now he effectively has deflected most of the teams ills toward Jacques; meanwhile his team has often resembled a keystone cop routine and his leadership skills must be questioned.

[Super Tourer]

Originally posted by Kirk
And yes I agree DR may be a better team principal than CP but I fail to see how anyone can say he has done a good job. For 2 years now he effectively has deflected most of the teams ills toward Jacques; meanwhile his team has often resembled a keystone cop routine and his leadership skills must be questioned.

Hmm, take a look at: Prodrivehttp://www.prodrive.com/defaultflash.asp?M=6

"Prodrive is one of the world’s leading motorsport and automotive groups. Our global operations have a turnover in excess of £110 million and we employ nearly 900 staff in the UK, North America, Germany, Thailand and Australia.

In motorsport we are the world’s largest independent business with involvement in various international race and rally series. Currently, we run the Subaru World Rally Team in the World Rally Championship; Subaru Rally Team USA in the SCCA ProRally Championship; the Ferrari 550 GTS programme in the Le Mans 24 hours and American Le Mans Series; Ford Performance Racing in the Australian V8 Supercar series; as well as managing the BAR Formula One Team. Already, we have six World Rally titles to our name and five British Touring Car Championships"

This looks like an example of pretty good leadership skills to me.....

[ASCII Man]

Originally posted by Gt_R
... and constant complaints that he's being sabotaged, having totally no ability to reflect on his own performance, then sound as if F1 needs him, i'm sorry to say that he's wrong, and i'd rather go for a bore.

Got proof like quotes?
Maybe then i wouldn't dismiss your comments as useless drivel.

[corkholio]

Originally posted by Kirk
In fact, after constantly being let down by his engineers, he would usually put a positive spin on the ineptness of his team.

Considering he brought Jock Clear over with him, he probably didn't want to **** off his last friend in the team.

[Super Tourer]

Perhaps, instead of going over all the old recriminations and ground we've trampled over before, we could consider another aspect. Like:

What will 2004 hold and how would JV adopt to a non-single seater discipline, for example.

Although this is going slightly off the F1 topic, it's better that opening up all the old wounds. IMO.

ST

[Gt_R]

Quote ASCMANII:"Got proof like quotes?
Maybe then i wouldn't dismiss your comments as useless drivel."


Example, regarding sabotaged - (from F1-live.com)"Last year, someone in the paddock was trying to destroy everything I achieved, putting about that I was a pain to work with," mentioned Villeneuve. "Everyone believed it. Even Bernie Ecclestone believed it because he was telling me I had to change my attitude. There was nothing I could do about it. It was out of my hands."

And try telling us when's the last time he told us the reasons for him not being wanted is because he isn't fast enough?

And isn't he the big egoed guy who lay down the challenge of quitting when Button beat him, claiming that he's over-hyped?

But still, feel free to dismiss what i say as "useless drivel". Truth hurts afterall.

Honestly, he had been quite an exciting prospect and when he came, i had wished he won the 96 championship. When Alex Zanardi failed in his attempt in F1, it makes me appreciate JV's achivements more, for i've seen him perform in his America-racing days. But of late, he had offered and contributed little to the growth of F1, and it's the "useless drivels" the big boy makes that eventually sealed his fate.

And driving talent wise, we are not exactly short of it from Alonso/Montoya/Kimi/Michael.

[Gt_R]

ST, i agree. There's little point to keep insisting JV's presence is good for F1 now that he's gone.

JV fans should take this perhaps as a blessing in disguise. Join LeMans, join sports cars. He would definitely make a huge impact there. We had seen lesser ex F1 drivers making good at those arena, and nothing would stop JV from impressing there. It would also further his record as the only driver to win different major titles.

We know that BAR-JV marriage is a failed one. There's little point for JV to stay where he is unhappy. All the things about money, team previlges, we must know that these guys are in this because right from the start, they enjoy racing. JV ought to start afresh, and return to the days where he enjoy racing.

[Irv the Swerve]

Originally posted by Kirk
Irv, it was led by Ron Dennis who dismissed JV before he raced a single moment in F1

Bing difference in being dismissed by the boss of a rival team and 'not accepted by the F1 elitists'. I can't see your point here at all. Dennis dismisses anyone who doesn't drive a McLaren and obviously seeing as Jacques walked into the best team on the grid and took the World Championship in his second season, I don't see any justification for saying he was not accepted into F1 by the so called 'elitists'. In fact, considering that in the very race where Villeneuve clinced the championship, his team did a deal with Ron's team to keep try and keep Ferrari back, there is more evidence to suggest that Villenueve was in fact readily accepted in F1 from the beginning. To me, it seems that Villeneuve's whole mantra revoloves around him seeing himself as some sort of rebel free spirit who is a maverick in the paddock and they won't accept him because of that, but I don't see the evidence to back up this lack of acceptance towards him when he arrived.

Originally posted by Kirk
And yes I agree DR may be a better team principal than CP but I fail to see how anyone can say he has done a good job. For 2 years now he effectively has deflected most of the teams ills toward Jacques; meanwhile his team has often resembled a keystone cop routine and his leadership skills must be questioned.

I'd say he has done a steady job so far rather than blindingly good. He is shaping the team into what he would like it to be, and there has been an improvement no doubt. Having said that, every new car is different so until Melbourne we won't know how the new BAR will fare. I don't know about deflecting the teams ills towards Jacques, but seeing as he deflected a lot of his ills to the team, I think we can safely say that they didn't get on, but I personally can't see them missing the JV of 2001,2002,2003 and they could sure use the money. The keystone cop routine reference has me baffled. Every team looks like a bunch of idiots at times, including Ferrari and Williams - BAR are no different and never will be different in that regard.
If I were a BAR fan exclusively, I would be confident that Dave Richards was the man for the job.

[Scottie]

I'm sorry to see him ousted, but here's what he is busy doing at the moment....
http://jv-world.com/mediastore/ice/team_JV.jpg

[Kirk]

Well Irv. I have followed and rooted for BAR since inception and to be honest they have greatly disappointed to the point of embarassment. DR has been mainly a PR man who spins some great yarns but he has had 2 years to turn BAR around and has not done a steady job at all; he has failed miserably in my view. The lone bright spot has been the progress of Button. Of course the Honda engines, the Bridgestone tires and the constant barrage of mechanical breakdowns have not helped the cause, but he is team principal and is ultimately responsible. Just how long shall we give him to show some real progress?

[Super Tourer]

2004 could show a marked improvement, plus the factor of having more budget to spend on the car, having made a substantial cost saving recently.....

[Irv the Swerve]

Originally posted by Kirk
Well Irv. I have followed and rooted for BAR since inception and to be honest they have greatly disappointed to the point of embarassment. DR has been mainly a PR man who spins some great yarns but he has had 2 years to turn BAR around and has not done a steady job at all; he has failed miserably in my view. The lone bright spot has been the progress of Button. Of course the Honda engines, the Bridgestone tires and the constant barrage of mechanical breakdowns have not helped the cause, but he is team principal and is ultimately responsible. Just how long shall we give him to show some real progress?

It doesn't happen overnight Kirk, or even two years. I think they are on the right track now as SuperTourer said. Contracts have to be seen out, personnel put in place, the tyre situation and there is no doubt the Honda need to step up a bit too - but these things are now happening.
I hope they do progress as I am a BAR fan too and I think now things are in place for a good season.
Well, if the car is any good that is.

[santori]

Flav did say that but his public views change every day. A couple of years ago he said JV was the equal of Michael. And since that quote I think he has said something more positive again.

[jhansen]

I think it is a shame that JV will not be on the grid in 2004. I have alwaysed followed him in F1, as he raced here in the states. Same goes for Montoya. But I wonder about his skills sometimes. He was blindingly quick at moments, chased Damon Hill in '96, but narrowly won the title in '97 with a vastly superior car (assuming MS had not been DQ'd from the season, it was 81 pts. to 78). And he could not muster a win out of the 1998 Williams. Even MS managed wins for Ferrari in their rebuilding years. But, that's history as are his years with BAR. Hopefully he does move to sportscars and Le Mans. His presence their would bring welcomed exposure.