What is Aston Martin up to?

[Tim the Grey]

I'm next junction up, where AM make the road cars...

[Audi Racer]

the Aston LMP1 will be powered by a V6 turbo. no word on displacement

[gwyllion]

Very likely they will go for the maximum allowed displacement which is 2 liters.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Speedblood

Hey hey, Ten Tenths AMR are currently looking to run the rumoured Lola Astons in the ALMS in 2011.... oops what have I said!

1 of the cars at leasr should be on it's way to Fieldofdreams house by now...

You've let the cat out of the bag now! We could possibly run three cars-we'll find the funding somehow...

A twin turbo V6 should be more competitive but in a perfect world I'd like to see an Aston V8 in there even if had no connection to the road car engine. EDIT: (I just read knighty's post above especially the last line-very interesting I wish you could say more too)

You could probably destroke a Vantage engine but down to 3.4L? Would it be possible and even if it was I couldnt see it being competitive unfortunately.

Oh well at least its not a diesel.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by rich07

You could probably destroke a Vantage engine but down to 3.4L? Would it be possible and even if it was I couldnt see it being competitive unfortunately.

Someone destroked a Vantage V8 down to 3 liters for a car that was supposed to be run in the Nurburgring 24h, but the damn thing simply didn't want to stay reliable.

[lemansfan]

I think you mean the Vantage from Team Schrick . Here you can find some Videos from this crazy Projekt .

http://www.dmax.de/video/team-schric...teil-1/#player

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by lemansfan

I think you mean the Vantage from Team Schrick . Here you can find some Videos from this crazy Projekt .

http://www.dmax.de/video/team-schric...teil-1/#player

Yeah, that's exactly the project I was thinking of.

[JayBMS]

First Racing are going to run a Vantage in GT2 next year.

anyone know who they are and where they're running?

under GT2 on the AMR season review

[Bentley03]

Love the way Aston Martin are publicly piling the pressure on the ACO at every opportunity with regard to 2011 LMP1 petrol/diesel equivalency. Two more references in the Season Review JayBMS linked to in his last post. Keep that pressure coming AMR!

[Speed-King]

There are two First Racing teams that I am aware of:
1) The French Squad that's been running the GT2-Gallardo in the last few LMS-races
2) The Belcar-team that largely sat out 2010, but was rather successfull with running Porsches before that.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by JayBMS

First Racing are going to run a Vantage in GT2 next year.

Great to see more Vantages out there. It ain't no DBR9 (or challenger to Corvette), but still a very nice sounding/looking car. I was very impressed of JMW's performance at Silverstone.

[Tim the Grey]

I remember when Hexis ran Muecke and Mako... Very encouraging. Then JMW bought in, and it got more developement bits from Aston...

I'd love to see a couple more out there, just for something that isn't a FIAT or VW! (Shame they're no longer owned by Ford, really...)

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Great to see more Vantages out there. It ain't no DBR9 (or challenger to Corvette), but still a very nice sounding/looking car. I was very impressed of JMW's performance at Silverstone.

Yep really good news. And if it is the First team who run the Lambo, we could be in for some more Gulf Aston action.

[JayBMS]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Yep really good news. And if it is the First team who run the Lambo, we could be in for some more Gulf Aston action.

could be them with the Gulf tie.. i've had a google and cant find a websife for them or any thing else about First Racing

[JayBMS]

also we now have Muscle Milk AMR!! that car sould look great

http://www.amr-teams.co.uk/2011/01/m...ason-with.html

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by JayBMS

also we now have Muscle Milk AMR!! that car sould look great

http://www.amr-teams.co.uk/2011/01/m...ason-with.html

Question: New Aston or one of the old Lola's? I'm betting on one of the old Lola's, as the new AMR is too new for a customer market, and the cars haven't been fully builtup yet.

EDIT: Just read in the ALMS thread that It'll be a Lola. I wonder how it'll respond to the ALMS' rules, as those have yet to be fully finalized for the non-ILMC events.

[broadrun96]

I wouldn't be surprised to see IMSA hold back until after Sebring to make full adjustments to the grandfathered LMPs. It should be at Sebring with its new spyder AMR LMP1 sibling, right? Making me consider the 9 hour drive down for the race, now if Audi hadn't held back the R18s.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Someone destroked a Vantage V8 down to 3 liters for a car that was supposed to be run in the Nurburgring 24h, but the damn thing simply didn't want to stay reliable.

The Shrick project? They ran a destroked V8? For some odd reason I thought they ran a V6-well that explains the reliability issues, you learn something new everyday eh?

Muscle Milk. Wow. I did not see that coming at all. What a surprise, I had them marked down for a Porsche GT2 effort this year. Fantastic news, great for our American friends to hear the Aston V12 again (Im on the wrong continent ).

[trahsub]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

There are two First Racing teams that I am aware of:
1) The French Squad that's been running the GT2-Gallardo in the last few LMS-races
2) The Belcar-team that largely sat out 2010, but was rather successfull with running Porsches before that.

There is this guy too, thought it's 99.9% unlikely that these guys are involved:

MICHAEL C. CULVER

Michael C. Culver, co-founder of First Racing, is the Chairman of the Skip Barber Racing School LLC, President and Chief Executive Officer of First Aviation Services Inc., and co-founder and principal of First Equity Group, Inc.

Prior to co-founding First Equity, Mr. Culver worked in various positions at Canadair, where he gained his valuable operating experience, before becoming the Director of Marketing for the Challenger business jet. He received a Bachelor of Commerce degree with distinction from McGill University, in Montreal, and an MBA from Harvard University.

Mr. Culver is a pilot with a multi-engine rating, and was a member of Canada's National Alpine Ski Team, racing at the World Cup level between 1968 and 1973. He is active in motorsports and as co-founder of First Racing, has, personally, won three championships since 1995.

[chernaudi]

Well, Audi and AMR are running V6s in their new cars, but it's yet to be known if those engines are 120 deg V6s (balancing and CG) or 90deg odd firing V6s (which would require some pretty beefy mounting points and a stiff chassis to absorb the likely vibrations--unless the Audi diesel is a fairly low-reving engine).

Only thing I wonder about the AMR V6 is if it will be a single turbo engine, or do the new ACO rules allow for twin turbos on gasoline engines--the Audi may be twin turbo but it's a diesel, which is allowed twin turbos if it's a V engine, and single or twin it will be a VTG. If single turbo on the Aston, it'll either be VTG or, if legal (which I doubt and it's sort of undesireable anyways) WRC-type anti-lag. Else wise, turbo lag may be the byword there.

Audi had some issues with it on early R8s (until the FSI engines), and it seems that Peugeot may've had issues--why the need for 6 speed gear box on the 908?

I hope that AMR chose wisely here.

[Audi Racer]

Will the new amr proto race at sebring??

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Well, Audi and AMR are running V6s in their new cars, but it's yet to be known if those engines are 120 deg V6s (balancing and CG) or 90deg odd firing V6s (which would require some pretty beefy mounting points and a stiff chassis to absorb the likely vibrations--unless the Audi diesel is a fairly low-reving engine).

60 deg is also common for V6s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V6#60_degrees

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Only thing I wonder about the AMR V6 is if it will be a single turbo engine, or do the new ACO rules allow for twin turbos on gasoline engines.

I don't immediately find it in the rules, but when talking about the 2011 rules the ACO always said single turbo for turbocharged petrol and twin turbo for diesel.

Originally Posted by chernaudi

If single turbo on the Aston, it'll either be VTG or, if legal (which I doubt and it's sort of undesireable anyways) WRC-type anti-lag. Else wise, turbo lag may be the byword there.

The anti-lag systems used in rally car are bad for fuel economy because fuel is burned inside exhaust instead of the engine (hence the name "bang-bang"). According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antilag_system

ALS was first used in the early days of turbocharged cars in Formula One racing circa mid to late 1980s, until fuel restrictions made its use unsuitable.

Not a good fit for endurance racing

[knighty]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Only thing I wonder about the AMR V6 is if it will be a single turbo engine, or do the new ACO rules allow for twin turbos on gasoline engines--the Audi may be twin turbo but it's a diesel, which is allowed twin turbos if it's a V engine, and single or twin it will be a VTG. If single turbo on the Aston, it'll either be VTG or, if legal (which I doubt and it's sort of undesireable anyways) WRC-type anti-lag. Else wise, turbo lag may be the byword there.

I hope that AMR chose wisely here.

thats a good point - I did have a rummage through the 2011 ACO draft rules in december last year, and was pleasantly surprised, as it apperrs that ever since 2009 turbo-compounding (turbo blowing a turbo) is allowed......in 2008 there was a specific rule and wording which made it forbidden, but I guess the manufacturers told the ACO to get real, as turbo-compound is a common trick for highly pressure-charged down-sized engines in order to make them drivable, but it only works to a certain point, the same for VGT, the new AMR engine being a V6, its transient response will be better than an I4 due to 50% more firing events - simples!

electronic boost assist to an existing turbo charged engine is the future, and this WILL be reflected in the 2013 F1 engine rules (just believe me!).......if someone wanted to introduce electronic boosting to LeMans I suspect the ACO would get a touch shirty as it contravines a few of the other rules........its also debatable how useful any boost assist is at lemans as this is the lower to medium working range of the engine, and lemans is basically a very fast circuit........but does have 6 or 7 slow corners, so never say never!

Many WRC teams have successfully diverted plenum flow into the exhaust manifold flow during off-throttle events, via using a simple valve (like EGR in reverse) in order to keep the turbo spooling and air flowing, basically in an attempt to NOT switch off the exhaust flow and therefore NOT slow the turbine shaft, its a bit gash but does work well, and keeps a rally engine on boost........ and I suspect this will find its way into turbo LMP cars, on the basis that its very simple, minimal, light weight well proven........forget bang-bang-systems, it drinks fuel and smashes the exhaust to pieces, not to mention deafeningly loud!!!

also I'm sure garret will push their VGT technology to many teams, I think both audi and pug were both running it last year

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by knighty

thats a good point - I did have a rummage through the 2011 ACO draft rules in december last year, and was pleasantly surprised, as it apperrs that ever since 2009 turbo-compounding (turbo blowing a turbo) is allowed......in 2008 there was a specific rule and wording which made it forbidden

I just had a look at the rules. The old rules used to say "6 cyl. maximum" and "Only one single stage charging device and air/air and/or air/water heat exchanger" for turbocharged LMP2 engines. These two rules have indeed been dropped for 2011 turbocharged petrol LMP1 engines.

BTW the 2011 rules allow ceramic bearings, which is also new.

Originally Posted by knighty

also I'm sure garret will push their VGT technology to many teams, I think both audi and pug were both running it last year

Can the Garret VGT technology deal the higher exhaust temperature of a petrol engine?

[Tim the Grey]

Could this be where A-M via DPR have been claiming to have improved the ACO equivalency formula in favour of petrol engines?
More turbos, and to a better spec?
Any reason they cannot run other ceramic components, i.e. housing and/or turbine on the exhaust side? After all, if I was clever, I'd design each to act as a bearing when assembled! It's a ceramic bearing... Honest.

If this then links to a proveable road car technology improvement, I would say ACO have to go with it?