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5 Oct 2019, 13:45 (Ref:3932076) | #1576 | ||
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Do you think the 2015 FIA/F1 halo design would just naturally bolt up to the existing 2012 Dallara DW12 chassis (or any other open cockpit chassis that predates the halo design)? I guess there is a remote (and random) chance it might work? But the 2012 chassis was not designed to work with any halo system as none existed when it was designed. It would likely require a noticeably bulky and wonky adapter to be built. Probably not to different than what was done for the Aeroscreen. Richard |
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6 Oct 2019, 03:51 (Ref:3932201) | #1577 | ||
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The IndyCar version with its extensive transparent lexan screen will have a huge effect on the car's aerodynamics, by the time you get back to the more delicate and lower powered formula cars the effect of these changes will be imo unacceptable in the case of the IndyCar version, whilst the HALO provides good protection with very little overall effect on the car. |
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6 Oct 2019, 12:37 (Ref:3932269) | #1578 | ||
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But the rest of your argument I can't agree with. I expect the lower powered formulas you mention is not F2 or F3 (as those clearly could adapt), but the very end of the scale such as Formula Vee, Formula Ford, etc. First, those already have prior examples of windscreen use in their designs. Second, the solution doesn't have to be as bulky as the IndyCar one. Third, I sure hope those grassroot series are not required to use a spec Titanium part designed for F1! That part alone might cost more than the rest of their base chassis! In reality the concept would need to be scaled down to provide appropriate protection for the speeds those cars reach. Same thing applies with respect to the Aeroscreen solution. Lower powered cars dont need protection levels required for 240 mph superspeedway cars. I also probably wouldn't be a spec part, but instead a design spec to follow (just like now for cage specs in closed top cars) I think the larger issue for the lower series is the cost of any big change and how that solution is integrated into a series in which nobody wants to make a bunch of chassis obsolete. It's a good discussion wnut, but I am a bit burnt out on it again. Cheers. Richard |
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28 Aug 2020, 01:33 (Ref:3998423) | #1579 | |
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Indycar happy with the protection the aeroscreen afforded during the brake and magnesium explosion experienced by James Davison at the Indy 500.
https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/28/...nd-up-28-08-3/ |
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28 Aug 2020, 01:51 (Ref:3998424) | #1580 | |
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I have no problems with a closed cockpit I just wonder how they are going to supply anything like the cooling to the driver in hot races or even in any races. It will have to be a serious amount of air to do that in an effective way, Hamilton reckons he loses 4kg in a race now where the cockpit is at least partially ventilated. The drivers could use cooling suits but then everyone will scream about the added weight.
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28 Aug 2020, 07:29 (Ref:3998447) | #1581 | ||
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Maybe they just ask how the LMP teams do it? It's not like that is a new issue.
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28 Aug 2020, 09:26 (Ref:3998465) | #1582 | |
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They use a circulating sytem of coolant into a cool suit as I mentioned above as do some touring car series. It can be refrigerated from an AC compressor or ice in a container and as far as I know open wheelers have not used a system like that so yes it is a new problem for open wheel racing cars.
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28 Aug 2020, 11:53 (Ref:3998486) | #1583 | ||
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Quote:
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29 Aug 2020, 03:14 (Ref:3998582) | #1584 | |
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29 Aug 2020, 07:57 (Ref:3998600) | #1585 | |
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29 Aug 2020, 08:10 (Ref:3998602) | #1586 | ||
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Just throw a bucket of dry ice in with driver like they did in the old days...
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29 Aug 2020, 08:45 (Ref:3998615) | #1587 | ||
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This entire thread is summed up with: "How can we possibly solve these complex engineering problems that other series have already solved?" |
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31 Aug 2020, 19:37 (Ref:3999296) | #1588 | |
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Still, I wonder if that's ever going to be possible to have the drivers sit in a small protected "cell" that surrounds them from all sides and shields them from external dangers. Protecting them against fire and splinters is doable, but protecting them from shocks... Even if you were to make the outer shell of that protective "box" out of a magical indestructible material, I doubt the drivers would survive going from 300+ to 0 kph in a quarter of a second.
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31 Aug 2020, 20:34 (Ref:3999305) | #1589 | ||
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Richard |
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31 Aug 2020, 21:08 (Ref:3999310) | #1590 | |||
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If the car stops the body inside keeps moving. If the body is somehow fully restrained ... the internal organs which are only loosely restrained within the body will keep moving. Think concussion when brain rattles off inside of the skull, or collapsed lungs where they have been compressed against the inside of the ribcage. Many forms of internal bleeding from innards tearing loose/apart. This is why crash protection is all about reducing the rate of deceleration, the car crumples, the barriers compress absorbing the energy. An enclosed cockpit is there for entirely different reasons, that being to prevent debris intrusion. Something which the halo has been proven to do to an extent, likewise the Indy car Aeroscreen. There continues to be those who throw objections such as cooling or extraction ... there is no need for F1 to re-invent the wheel, there are companies out there that provide cooling or extraction solutions to other enclosed cockpit users. |
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1 Sep 2020, 03:37 (Ref:3999353) | #1591 | ||
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In a recent podcast, ex-Indy Lights driver Jason Bright talks about a crash that ruled him out of Gold Coast Indy. In the aftermath, he told the Safety Team that his back was red hot; turned out that his body moved forward while his skin stayed still.
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1 Sep 2020, 04:29 (Ref:3999354) | #1592 | ||
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At one stage David Purley held the (unwanted) record for survival of a high G crash after his jammed throttle collision with the fence at Silverstone in practice for the British GP.
He went from 108mph to zero in a distance on just over half a metre which was calculated to be a deceleration of 179.8g. Not sure if anyone has survived a higher level of G. |
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1 Sep 2020, 06:08 (Ref:3999356) | #1593 | |||
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Like Purley, Brack survived with his life but his body was badly damaged..... he 'escaped' with a broken sternum, breastbone and femur, shattered vertebra in his spine, crushed ankles and so many other fractures. Again like David he had multiple surgeries. Kenny made a full recovery and returned to racing at the Indy 500 a couple of years later, before retiring from Indycr after the race. He is still performing at Historic events such as Goodwood. I believe he is now at McLaren (road cars ) as their chief test driver. |
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1 Sep 2020, 08:23 (Ref:3999362) | #1594 | |
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I still remember seeing Brack's accident, he was one lucky boy. He was helped by the car breaking up and dispersing a lot of energy, whilst the survival cell remained intact. The problem is he was kept out for so long with his injuries taking longer and longer to heal
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3 Sep 2020, 07:13 (Ref:3999737) | #1595 | ||
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3 Sep 2020, 07:52 (Ref:3999747) | #1596 | |
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Yeah. When the cockpits had no shield it's not like the drivers were getting airflow to their legs (other than the nose opening) is it? Putting the shield there takes cooling away from the face area. Introducing the cooling hose to the helmet solves that.
In this thread: "These problems everyone else has solved? How can we solve these?" |
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3 Sep 2020, 13:18 (Ref:3999814) | #1597 | ||
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The biggest problem has been what the drivers call stagnant air, building up behind the Aeroscreen and temperatures rising in the cockpit. At Iowa, IndyCar introduced scoops, (circled in yellow) at the top of the Aeroscreen, which improved getting rid of the hot stagnant air. When 7 times NASCAR champion Jimmie Johnson tested at the IMS road coarse, the scoops plus a larger diameter hose feeding air to his helmet, made a significant difference, even at lower speeds. However, at the Indy 500 the scoops weren't used due to the steady high-speed air being fed into the cockpit through the front and sides.
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5 Sep 2020, 03:33 (Ref:4000154) | #1598 | ||
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5 Sep 2020, 04:38 (Ref:4000157) | #1599 | ||
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6 Sep 2020, 04:37 (Ref:4000347) | #1600 | |
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We'll make you the test pilot on a 40+ deg day in Oz and see your reaction. Your point may be valid in a colder climate but even then I have my doubts.
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