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Old 20 Feb 2017, 05:38 (Ref:3713252)   #1
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Data sharing between team mates should be banned.

Lewis Hamilton has called for data sharing between team mates to be outlawed.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report...r-data-sharing

And I agree with him 100%. It's unfair for one driver to work his butt off to get an advantage, only for the other driver to copy his hard work.

Hamilton did not look at Rosberg's data as long as they were team mates. Not once. Rosberg on the other hand, reportedly spent hours studying Hamilton's data.
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 06:18 (Ref:3713256)   #2
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What a load of rubbish. He really does make himself look stupid.
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 06:59 (Ref:3713264)   #3
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Sounds more like a wish to make Bottas' learning curve more difficult.


Hamilton used Rosberg's settings lots and often

Lewis Hamilton followed Mercedes team-mate Nico Rosberg's direction


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124270
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 08:04 (Ref:3713271)   #4
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What Formula One - and many other forms of racing - needs is far fewer rules , not more of them . Team mates have shared data(and information before it was data )since time immemorial; the suggestion is ludicrous and motivated entirely by self interest- spiced with a seasoning of paranoia. Silly man .
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 08:27 (Ref:3713276)   #5
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Originally Posted by wnut View Post
Hamilton used Rosberg's settings lots and often

Lewis Hamilton followed Mercedes team-mate Nico Rosberg's direction


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124270
Obviously you didn't read the article in the opening post. LH is referring to driver data. Not car performance related data.


To anyone who doesn't agree with LH's view. If you were a race car driver, and you showed up a day early, went out on track as much as physically possible, found every tenth there was available by working your arse off getting ready for the race.

Then your team mate, who happens to be your biggest rival, shows up an hour or two before race start, looks at your data that YOU worked your arse off to figure out, and beats you on race day! How would you feel?

Do you think that's fair? Your knowledge, skills and an advantage gained by your hard work and efforts, was shared with someone who wouldn't put in as much time and effort as you did, and have them beat you??

As for self interest, ummm... since when has racing not been all about self interest?? Racing drivers, on track, are some of the most selfish people you will come across. If not for self interest, why bother being a "racing driver"??
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 09:10 (Ref:3713290)   #6
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Originally Posted by F1Guy View Post
To anyone who doesn't agree with LH's view. If you were a race car driver, and you showed up a day early, went out on track as much as physically possible, found every tenth there was available by working your arse off getting ready for the race.

Then your team mate, who happens to be your biggest rival, shows up an hour or two before race start, looks at your data that YOU worked your arse off to figure out, and beats you on race day! How would you feel?

Do you think that's fair? Your knowledge, skills and an advantage gained by your hard work and efforts, was shared with someone who wouldn't put in as much time and effort as you did, and have them beat you??
You have, by trying to be so analytical about Hamilton, actually described him to a tee.

In case you haven't been following the media too much of the past couple of years, Hamilton has missed (my interpretation, refused to participate because he was in a huff, again) at least 3 test sessions last year and some from the year before.

Unfortunately we do not have information about how much time that he spends with the engineers both during race meetings, between rounds and in the off-season, but I would hazard a guess that the time is kept to the minimum. An example of my reasoning is that when the team were not allowed to radio instructions on changes needed to his settings and which he spent ages trying to work out, Rosberg, who had had to make the same adjustments, took just a few moments to make the corrections.

And part of the craft of the successful racing driver is the ability to set their car up in the most efficient way to give him/her the edge over the opposition, not just work out braking points, etc.. It's no good just knowing that your teammate in an identical car is able to brake 5 metres later, if when you try the same thing, you can't turn the car into the corner because it is badly set up.

What we do know is that Hamilton has, on many, many occasions copied Rosberg's settings because his weren't working. So, certainly in my eyes, his latest outpouring just re-confirms my belief that he is a chump.

As an aside, where is Hamilton going to embarrass himself this year? He's done New Zealand, so where next?
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 09:33 (Ref:3713302)   #7
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Originally Posted by F1Guy View Post
LH is referring to driver data. Not car performance related data.
LOL, perhaps you'd care to explain the difference?
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 09:35 (Ref:3713303)   #8
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If Hamilton is the racer he thinks he is (and I think he is very good), then he should have no problem to outrace any other driver, even if the other one could see all his secrets.
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 09:52 (Ref:3713311)   #9
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If Hamilton is the racer he thinks he is (and I think he is very good), then he should have no problem to outrace any other driver, even if the other one could see all his secrets.
I'd agree with that gert. I do usually defend Lewis on here, but I do think that his latest outburst is a bit silly to say the least. The important part of his comment is Team mates. They are part of a team, and although they are ultimately looking out for themselves, they are also looking out to make the whole team as successful as possible as well (as that also benefits them individually). It team driver A is quicker on one half of the circuit, and driver B is quicker over the other half, by cross-referencing each others data they should be able to both become quicker over the whole lap.
The fact still remains however as Mike has pointed out, just because your team mate can brake (say) five metres later than you for a certain corner, if you want to do the same thing you still have to have the car set up, and the driving ability to get the car through that corner if you want to do the same.
Unfortunately I think the cracks in his armour are starting to show, and think that this highlights his insecurity and fears that he's not going to easily beat Bottas this year...
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 10:10 (Ref:3713324)   #10
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This below. HAM is not necessarily known as a workhorse. So he seems to be arguing against himself.

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Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
You have, by trying to be so analytical about Hamilton, actually described him to a tee.

In case you haven't been following the media too much of the past couple of years, Hamilton has missed (my interpretation, refused to participate because he was in a huff, again) at least 3 test sessions last year and some from the year before.

Unfortunately we do not have information about how much time that he spends with the engineers both during race meetings, between rounds and in the off-season, but I would hazard a guess that the time is kept to the minimum. An example of my reasoning is that when the team were not allowed to radio instructions on changes needed to his settings and which he spent ages trying to work out, Rosberg, who had had to make the same adjustments, took just a few moments to make the corrections.

And part of the craft of the successful racing driver is the ability to set their car up in the most efficient way to give him/her the edge over the opposition, not just work out braking points, etc.. It's no good just knowing that your teammate in an identical car is able to brake 5 metres later, if when you try the same thing, you can't turn the car into the corner because it is badly set up.

What we do know is that Hamilton has, on many, many occasions copied Rosberg's settings because his weren't working. So, certainly in my eyes, his latest outpouring just re-confirms my belief that he is a chump.

As an aside, where is Hamilton going to embarrass himself this year? He's done New Zealand, so where next?
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 10:56 (Ref:3713341)   #11
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LOL, perhaps you'd care to explain the difference?
Sure. Driver data is the drivers braking points, racing lines taken, points of acceleration, how much curb is being used at a particular corner, throttle percentage used at a particular point, etc. etc. Basically the drivers personal driving style.

Car performance data is what suspension settings are used (ride height, camber, toe for example). Also tyre pressures, aero, ballast, etc. etc. Basically the car's set up data.

Car set up info has always been shared between the drivers engineers, and it should be. That's part of helping the team improve. Driver data is a personal record of what each driver is doing, and it should not be shared IMO. Let each drivers skill and ability determine the winner. Not the better drivers info improving the lesser drivers ability.
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 11:19 (Ref:3713347)   #12
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Hamilton is not forward thinking enough. Not only should his teammate not have access to his data... he shouldn't have access to his own data! He can't talk to the team and the team can't talk to him. The team can just do their best on setup and hope for the best. Lewis can just show up and drive the car. That might fit his personality?!

Seriously it is absolutely ridiculous. It can be "his" data when he buys the team and makes the rules. Otherwise it is the teams's data and not his. Teams should do as they please in this area.

Lastly, he (or anyone) would be a fool to not look at his teammates data. Even if you are already faster. You can maybe learn something you didn't already know.

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Old 20 Feb 2017, 11:21 (Ref:3713349)   #13
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Originally Posted by F1Guy View Post
Sure. Driver data is the drivers braking points, racing lines taken, points of acceleration, how much curb is being used at a particular corner, throttle percentage used at a particular point, etc. etc. Basically the drivers personal driving style.

Car performance data is what suspension settings are used (ride height, camber, toe for example). Also tyre pressures, aero, ballast, etc. etc. Basically the car's set up data.

Car set up info has always been shared between the drivers engineers, and it should be. That's part of helping the team improve. Driver data is a personal record of what each driver is doing, and it should not be shared IMO. Let each drivers skill and ability determine the winner. Not the better drivers info improving the lesser drivers ability.
LOL, you don't think that car set up data has a direct correlation to driver performance, and vice versa then!
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 13:24 (Ref:3713380)   #14
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Stupid comment from a tremendously talented driver who sometimes seems to go out of his way to make himself look foolish.
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 13:32 (Ref:3713382)   #15
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[QUOTE=F1Guy;3713341]Sure. Driver data is the drivers braking points, racing lines taken, points of acceleration, how much curb is being used at a particular corner, throttle percentage used at a particular point, etc. etc. Basically the drivers personal driving style.

So drivers would be banned form watching TV replays of practice and qualifying? Most of the info is in the public domain, maybe he wants to talk the Sky to edit coverage of his laps

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Old 20 Feb 2017, 13:47 (Ref:3713387)   #16
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Anyway, it's rubbish as "driver performance" data and "car" data are part of one and the same thing.
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 14:03 (Ref:3713390)   #17
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I was very sorry when I saw the headline for these comments, once again he has left himself open to negative comments such we see here.

What he really needs is a better personal management team. In an age when every comment by a well known person is analysed as never before, then the comments need to be managed.

We all only know what the press tell us, ask Mr Trump
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 14:41 (Ref:3713398)   #18
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with a new team mate, i took this as LH trying to undermine Bottas who is no doubt spending time analysing LH's (and Nico's) past races and will now no doubt be asked questions about how much he is 'copying' LH.

mind games akin to the 'rich kid vs poor kid' narrative he tried to create a few seasons ago with Nico.

certainly not a classy move but all's fair in love and sport.
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 15:11 (Ref:3713408)   #19
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 15:28 (Ref:3713419)   #20
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Lol isn't that the truth, although I am with Lewis on this one ..
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 16:26 (Ref:3713444)   #21
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mind games akin to the 'rich kid vs poor kid' narrative he tried to create a few seasons ago with Nico.
I am not sure who Lewis is targeting his mind games at? As best as I can tell... himself? Bottas just needs to walk past him in the garage and say... "You data was very interesting... See you on track!"

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Old 20 Feb 2017, 16:44 (Ref:3713447)   #22
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for sure hope that Bottas is savvy enough to ignore it. dealing with his team mates ego is not going to be an easy task.

time will tell of course if its effective or not (i look forward to it escalating over the season) and its not like we havent seen a driver attempt to protect their 'data' before...truth be told though, i kind of like the adversarial nature of it.
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 17:04 (Ref:3713451)   #23
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Data , schmata - who gives a fig which bit of information it relates to ? I have a binary approach to motor racing - the interesting bit is ultimately about two drivers seeing who blinks first into a corner. Strategy, tyres, undercuts and the rest of the stuff which is now more about algorithms than driving is heroically tedious . If looking at your team mate's data actually gets anybody moist with excitement can I suggest chess?
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 17:16 (Ref:3713456)   #24
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How much 'data' do drivers actually contribute these days? The cars are so massively engineered and managed from the garage and factory and relatively little time over the race weekend to let drivers play around with set up ideas that might not work or engineers are sceptical about.
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Old 20 Feb 2017, 19:16 (Ref:3713484)   #25
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If we got rid of telemetry it would not only eliminate this problem, but make the racing more unpredictable
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