Red & Yellow Stripey Flag

[Richard Duvall]

Whether you call it the oil flag, the slippery surface flag or whatever, I have always been taught that it is always stationary, never waved. An explanation was given that it can look red if waved.

In a moment of boredom I found myself browsing through the Blue Book and was a little surprised to find Section Q Para 15.1 stating:

(g) Yellow flag with Red Stripes – Stationary: Slippery

surface ahead.
(h) Yellow flag with Red Stripes – Waved: Slippery

surface imminent.

Clearly the BB is the official words of wisdom. Does this mean that my training has been incorrect?

[Steven Humphrey]

I thought it was never waved & made a (slightly) sarcastic comment on this very forum saying so. Only to be made to look like a complete arse...........

[deley]

Originally Posted by Richard Duvall

Whether you call it the oil flag, the slippery surface flag or whatever, I have always been taught that it is always stationary, never waved. An explanation was given that it can look red if waved.

In a moment of boredom I found myself browsing through the Blue Book and was a little surprised to find Section Q Para 15.1 stating:

(g) Yellow flag with Red Stripes – Stationary: Slippery

surface ahead.
(h) Yellow flag with Red Stripes – Waved: Slippery

surface imminent.

Clearly the BB is the official words of wisdom. Does this mean that my training has been incorrect?

as you say the normal wisdom is not to wave it as such so that the potential confusion over the colour is avoided ......

if necessary to get movement in the flag I use the "pole in one hand and opposite edge of flag in the other (as for a stationary flag) but then move it up and down to give some movement" method - which also works for any flag needing to be waved on very windy days

Dave

[Norbert]

As Dave has stated above the movement up and down of the flag is the best way to 'wave' the oil flag. A standard figure of 8 has a tendancy to blur the colours into a orange mess!

A 'waved' oil flag should only be used for a 'Torre Canyon' magnitude oil spill though!

[MacGWC]

[QUOTE=Norbert;3063018]As Dave has stated above the movement up and down of the flag is the best way to 'wave' the oil flag. A standard figure of 8 has a tendancy to blur the colours into a orange mess!
QUOTE]

This is, in my view, an accurate summation of the situation with the red and yellow flag. It would interesting to hear views of current flag marshals and competitors, to see perhaps if the instruction in the Blue Book needs changing.

If so, I am sure Chris Hobson as Chair of the MWG and Race Committee member would be happy to raise the matter there.

[Wet marshal]

The only time i was asked to wave the oil/slipperry surface/debris flag,was in Belgium in 1989 when immenant rain was coming! and then it rained for hours!

[Woolley]

I've never waved it, although a vigorous wiggle can help to draw attention to it!

The up-and-down-while-holding-it-steady approach is effective too.

[deadsquirrel]

Don't wave it, rock it enthusiastically!

The perception of looking at a waved stripey flag is for the lighter color to 'disappear' - so it looks like a dark pink flag...

[Clive Brown]

Yellow flag with Red Stripes- Stationary: Slippery.

Yellow flag with Red Stripes- Waved : Very Slippery

[Shelagh]

If I recall correctly, the "oil flag" (showing my age) is the only one that does not have to be waved under FIA regs.

My view is that if you have enough "slippery surface" that you require an advance warning then you wave your "oil" flag and the previous post holds out a stationary.

[ChrisPage]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

Yellow flag with Red Stripes- Stationary: Slippery.

Yellow flag with Red Stripes- Waved : Very Slippery

But that contradicts the Blue Book version, which suggests the relationship between waved/stationery is much as the relationship between waved/stationery yellows - i.e. stationery means it to expect it up the road, waved means you are right on it now.

I don't mean that to disagree with your way of use, which is consisent with my brief experience, but to say the Blue Book version sounds a bit aray.

[Steven Humphrey]

The way i would interpret the rules is (for example) if a car had dragged a load of gravel/dumped it's oil on a corner, the preceding post would 'wave' the flag, while the previous would show a stationary. Same procedure if a large bit of debris was on a straight.

[Mark Mitchell]

I have waved it.......that's what I was taught1 Also, the preceding flag point would display it stationary - pretty much like yellows!

[Paul Newns]

I'd be interested in a driver's opinion of a waved oil flag. If I want to emphasise the seriousness I move it up and down vigorously but keeping the face of it clearly visible. However, that didn't work very well with F BMW a few years ago. The first eleven (if I recall correctly) cars still went off at Cascades.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Paul Newns

I'd be interested in a driver's opinion of a waved oil flag. If I want to emphasise the seriousness I move it up and down vigorously but keeping the face of it clearly visible. However, that didn't work very well with F BMW a few years ago. The first eleven (if I recall correctly) cars still went off at Cascades.

My experience of F BMW is they did not need oil or other slippery conditions to go off, I once saw them arrive out for practice and about six of them proceeded to eat gravel at the first corner.

[Peter Davies]

From a drivers point of view a stationary stripey flag is less confusing than a waved flag!

PS we are easily confused!!!!!!!!!!!



Thanks

Pete

[Asp]

Originally Posted by Paul Newns

I'd be interested in a driver's opinion of a waved oil flag.

When I did my first flag training day we did a very basic test of this - from some distance away, did a waved stripey flag still look like a stripey flag? It did.
Granted, it's different standing some distance away from driving at speed past it - but it's a test all the same.
Especially considering that a waved stripey will be preceeded by a stationary stripey, I have no problems in waving it - I'll just make sure that the preceeding post has identified it correctly before I do. Can only think of once I've needed to do it in practice though.

[Greem]

I had a need to display a 'waved' change of surface flag at Donington today. Considering the wind at the time it was a 'move from side to side' flag instead because there was a constant strong wind directly onto the flag, if I'd waved it all the drivers would have seen was the stick!

That said the oil dropped by a Mini was all the way round the circuit so if the drivers hadn't realised they were either blind or extremely skilful...

[Chigley]

Especially considering that a waved stripey will be preceeded by a stationary stripey

Would you care to show me where in the Blue Book it says that? It doesn't.

If you actually read the Blue Book it gives the order of flags for the use of yellows but there is no requirement for that procedure with the change of surface flag. Any flaggie(s) I teach, mentor.... will be told to agitate, shake or as an extreme measure move it up or down or in circles but never wave it.
There is no standard design for the change of surface flag, only a minimum size. So, do you have 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 panels, if an odd number are there more yellow than red. When held horizontally are the panels vertical or horizontal? If you start waving the flag the colours merge and do they then tend towards yellow or red!!! who knows it becomes a lottery.
To misquote a well known comment from GI Jane when the MSA gave the instruction that the CoS flag could be waved I believe someone "had a brain f*rt".

[deadsquirrel]

And think how quick and easy it would be with a landline system, for the post 'agitating' their flag to request the previous post to hold a stationary CoS flag as the end of their sector might be involved but be unseen by them.....

[Greem]

Must have taken all of 20 seconds for that to happen yesterday. I spot oil, Post Chief phones RC, RC phone post 7, flag goes out. Magic things, phones

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Greem

Must have taken all of 20 seconds for that to happen yesterday. I spot oil, Post Chief phones RC, RC phone post 7, flag goes out. Magic things, phones

LL would be ten times faster

[Woolley]

You can have a lot of cars off on oil in 20 seconds. Look at Brands TC...

However, we're off topic.

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Woolley

You can have a lot of cars off on oil in 20 seconds. Look at Brands TC...

However, we're off topic.

What, just, or 10 pages ago?

[exflagman]

Originally Posted by deadsquirrel

LL would be ten times faster

But no faster than Mk1 eyeball!