Challenge : Current oval, new road course.

[duke_toaster]

It's not really a compo, it's just a really loose challenge.

The guidelines

• The circuit must be a new road course sited at an existing oval anywhere
• If the oval has an existing road course, you've got to demolish the lot.
• It should be able to hold something major, if it's in the US (which it probably will be) ALMS will be the benchmark.
• Other than that, it's pretty much free. Build one on a short oval or even a biggo like Pocono (my choice) or Talladega

As a starter, here's my new road course for Pocono which is inspired in some respects by Monza. Having only 12 corners, it's a power circuit which also tests brakes and balls. It tries to seem like it is not a roval (I only use part of 1 oval corner) but at the same time runs on a lot of the oval straights so that oval seating can be used for most of the track, and if needed some form of temporary seating could be put down on T1 of the oval and on other parts of the circuit.

Going down the main straight to start the lap brings high speeds ... then then a moderate speed chicane-cum-stadium-section, Andretti. If a car misses its braking point, it can just use the oval T1 as run off.

Then the Franklin bends, skirting the inside of the first corner of the oval, tarmacing the bit between that and the oval as well.

Then the first slow corner - Conrad Chicane (named after Pete Conrad, the third man to walk on the moon). A tight chicane, reminicient of Monza or a street circuit. This corner is vital as it leads out on to the Long Pond straight.

The Long Pond straight could be broken up with a chicane or something if desired.

Indianapolis will be a bit of a braking zone and a little bit like a more open version of the turn of the same name at Le Mans. Then comes Pirate which feeds the cars back on to the oval, then again exit speed is critical.

The final section is reminicient of Fuji Speedway. There is Steel, a kink a little like the Mulsanne kink and Eagle, an by the book chicane. The cars are fed back on to the last 90 degrees of Big Bend.

[nickyf1]

nice idea may ahve ago later, what was the link to the backup racingcircuits.net?

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by nickyf1

nice idea may ahve ago later, what was the link to the backup racingcircuits.net?

www.theracingline.net/racingcircuits and then click on racingcircuits.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

I posted something suitable for this just a few weeks ago....

http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....48&postcount=1

It's based to scale on the Welkom oval in South Africa.

[mandretti39]

I have used the Talladega oval. First off, you will noticed I have moved the pits to accommodate a new start/finish line for F1 and Champ Car (as they now do standing starts along with F1). There are also two road course variants, one for Champ Car, ALMS, etc.; and one for F1 as racing on the high banks of Talladega would be dangerous.

First up is the facility with all circuit variants...


Next up is the oval...


Next up is the road course...


Last, but not least, the F1 variant of the road course...


Hope you like it!

[Tathrim]

nice
would F1 be able to use the banking as well?

[mandretti39]

Originally Posted by Tathrim

nice
would F1 be able to use the banking as well?

I doubt it. I don't think F1 cars can handle the steep banking. If they could, why aren't they running oval races?

[chemhead1]

Originally Posted by mandretti39

If they could, why aren't they running oval races?

"'Cuz they're wussies?"

Sorry, I just had to use that for today.

[marcel82]

Originally Posted by chemhead1

"'Cuz they're wussies?"

well... yeah

[shambles]

The greatest oval of them all, the Grenzlandring!



Totally infeasible, but whatever! :d

[Dylan14]

The Atlanta Motor Speedway is the oval I have used for this challenge.

The first road course is a infield/outfield course used for F1, Indycars, and ChampCar.
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=1156878

The second road course is a club circuit used for more regional races and one make races.
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=1158552

The final road course is used for testing and go karts.
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=1158648
All circuits go anti-clockwise.

[shambles]

Have to repost my track as the link has moved so:

[werner]

Originally Posted by mandretti39

I doubt it. I don't think F1 cars can handle the steep banking. If they could, why aren't they running oval races?

Because everyone outside the USA thinks oval racing is stupid?

[marcel82]

Originally Posted by werner

Because everyone outside the USA thinks oval racing is stupid?

I don't think oval racing is stupid, it's quite fun to watch, tbh
well, compared to F1 it is

[chemhead1]

Alright, it took me all day (and by that I mean from lunch to supper It feels like all day!) to mark this out, but I feel really proud of the results.

Phoenix International Raceway

What? You say that's not the PIR oval? Here's a better view with the satellite image behind it:



And finally, the large view with all the turns numbered.



http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=1171774 To see it closer and move around on it.

So as you can see, this is actually using both the infield circuit used by Grand-Am AND the exterior circuit that is not used heavily, if at all anymore.

Quick Stats
Phoenix International Raceway
New Grand Prix "Roval" Layout
31 Turns
3.4 Miles (5.47 Kilometers)
Elevation changes listed in the Satellite view.

I'm pretty bad at writing out what a lap on my tracks would be like, so I'll just point out sections of the track worth noting.

- Turn 1 is a single-radius turn, tighter than the actual oval turn itself, but still just as consistant. And because of Phoenix's low banking, the transition from oval straight to infield is easier without risk of cars bottoming out the front lips.

- Turn 5 is a simple hairpin. It was drawn up shorter and tighter than the former corner at that section to allow for a wider track and more runoff.

- Some work may have to be done to the inside of Turn 8 in order to open this up a bit more.

- I added the Hairpin Turn 11 for 2 reasons: 1) Promoting braking battles to overtake coming into it, and 2) To break up the otherwise high speeds a car like an ALMS P1 could achieve here. This section coming up to, including, and after 11 are all very wide. Expect side-by-side slipstream battles constantly.

- Turn 14/15 added in to break up speeds coming out of the sweeping Turn 13, in which cars should be carrying plenty of speed from the straight before it.

- You could try to take Turn 16/17 flat out. TRY. I didn't tighten this section up to prevent speed more than to give drivers a little wake up call.


- I straightened out the section between what is now Turns 19/20 mostly to keep cars from breaking off their slipstream in the former esses section.

- The Turn 21/22/23 chicane added for safety. Will be somewhat wide, either only marked by kerbs or standing pylons (ala some British tracks). If anyone really thinks this can be bypassed with a straight SAFELY, then sure, ommit the chicane. But it doesn't look like it would happen.

- Turn 24 looks really fun to try to take flat out. That's all I have to say on that.

- Turn 25/26 is interesting. I believe that is actually the track's Helipad the course is running through! From the elevation chart, the run up to 25 is actually uphill, while there seems to be a dip immidiately after 26....

- Turns 27/28 are a relatively steep rise, a point fans would love to stake out, giving them a view of this section AND the oval/infield as well!

- Turn 29, one of the best vistas of this entire course and the highest point of the circuit. Drivers will have to be brave and have nerves of steel to try to attempt a diving pass here. Care is to be taken in the car suddenly feeling......"light".

- Sharp drop over to the final turns, Turn 30/31, which will more than likely be a kerb chicane (seeing that permanent pylons aren't practical here on the oval surface). I would expect all the final passing to be done at 29 rather than 30/31. This is more for safety so the cars won't carry massive speed into Turns 1 & 2/3 chicane.

So that's my run at the new road course at Phoenix. I hope you guys like it. Comments greatly appreciated.

[Tathrim]

chemhead 1: That is an absolute beast of a track, I love the flow of it. well done.
martin - 1: I also like yours. kinda reminds me of intrlargos in it's current state.

[duke_toaster]

Any comments on my Pocono in post 1?

[shambles]

Wow Chem, that looks good. Really detailed explanation too, thumbs up.

duke, some people wouldn't like your circuit due to the harsh angles of some of the corners, but I think it works. Simple edits, are sometimes the best, and I think you've doen a good job with Pocono!

[chemhead1]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Any comments on my Pocono in post 1?

Oh right. Sorry 'bout that!

Ahem...

The thing about Pocono is that its straights are so long and the turns are so varied, that there's a lot of potential for a top-class road course here. Problem is the current one (not yours, the real one) is just plain boring. While this helps, it still has some things that the current road course has that bothers me, that being very slow corners. So let's go in order of what turns you would hit first:


- Andretti: After a tight 90-degree first turn (which because the main straight is wide enough, there could be some bottlenecking at the start), the last thing I'd want to see next is another 90-degree turn in the opposite direction. It reminds me of some turns you would hit in, say, Seattle Circuit on Gran Turismo. Of course that has elevation changes (not to mention it's fake) to make up for it. But this is more than likely going to be pretty flat all around the circuit (sans banking, which almost all has been ommitted in this layout). Andretti by far needs to be SERIOUSLY opened up. I'd like to see something like this:

It would be best to leave the first turn tight to break the speeds coming off of Big Bend.

- Franklin Bends: IMO it would be better making this completely flush next to Oval Turn 1. In other words, have a section on the inside of the oval banking paved and have that as a nice, constant but flat turn. And this would help the course doubly. To be honest, the fact that Pocono's Turn 1 doesn't have an apron on the bottom for slow cars out of the pits to stay down on frightens me. During oval races, it's the bottom apron for cars coming out of the pits. For road races, it IS the track!

- Conrad Chicane: Probably not necessary, but if you must, better to have it as more of a tyre/kerb chicane instead of a permanent Infield-to-outfield set of "90 degree"ers.

- Indianapolis/Daytona/Pirate: Doesn't look all that exciting more than added just to go around Tunnel Curve, one of the turns I think should definitely be utilized in a Pocono road circuit. My idea: Have a neat infield section (not just chicanes and brief sections off the oval), starting somewhere between Conrad Chicane and the last 1/3-1/4 of Long Pond Straight, weaving through the infield (go nuts, it's pretty big, actually), coming out right before Tunnel Curve, not too tight to have the cars literally crawling through Tunnel, but enough so the cars aren't too fast coming through North Straight into Steel, something like this:

- Steel-Eagle-Big Bend: I like it, Eagle just needs to be opened up a little bit for drivers to really get a feel for using the oval section.

It's a good start, I'd just like to see a lot more of the infield utilized!

[mandretti39]

Originally Posted by Dylan14

The Atlanta Motor Speedway is the oval I have used for this challenge.

The first road course is a infield/outfield course used for F1, Indycars, and ChampCar.
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=1156878

The second road course is a club circuit used for more regional races and one make races.
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=1158552

The final road course is used for testing and go karts.
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=1158648
All circuits go anti-clockwise.

Couple of problems with the tracks. The first road course (the infield/outfield course), when you have the outfield track rejoining the oval, it's entering on the banking. It's just not possible. I'll see if I can find pictures of that area to show you what I mean.

Also, the go kart track appears to cut through the paddock. That's a permanent structure, you can't remove it. How do the cars get through there?

[LibertyBell]

Rockingham: http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=1181684
I know I didn't completely destroy the infield but oh well...
Pits are in the infield, behind the paddock.

Lausitz: http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=1181697
A figure-eight. What else can I say?

[Dylan14]

Is this edit of the infield/outfield course of Atlanta Motor Speedway fixes the problem of the outfield entrance?

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=1181405

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by Dylan14

Is this edit of the infield/outfield course of Atlanta Motor Speedway fixes the problem of the outfield entrance?

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=1181405

I'm not sure how that fixes the problem of the outfield entrance.

The exit of the first corner banking drops off the oval and down 30 ft to the tunnelexit from under the banking.
The exit out of the oval is up over the edge of the banking.
The re-entrance to the oval is over the banking (Your outside chicane is in the tunnel entrance to go under the banking)

[Matt]

Originally Posted by chemhead1

Alright, it took me all day (and by that I mean from lunch to supper It feels like all day!) to mark this out, but I feel really proud of the results.

Phoenix International Raceway

What? You say that's not the PIR oval? Here's a better view with the satellite image behind it:



And finally, the large view with all the turns numbered.



http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=1171774 To see it closer and move around on it.

So as you can see, this is actually using both the infield circuit used by Grand-Am AND the exterior circuit that is not used heavily, if at all anymore.

Quick Stats
Phoenix International Raceway
New Grand Prix "Roval" Layout
31 Turns
3.4 Miles (5.47 Kilometers)
Elevation changes listed in the Satellite view.

I'm pretty bad at writing out what a lap on my tracks would be like, so I'll just point out sections of the track worth noting.

- Turn 1 is a single-radius turn, tighter than the actual oval turn itself, but still just as consistant. And because of Phoenix's low banking, the transition from oval straight to infield is easier without risk of cars bottoming out the front lips.

- Turn 5 is a simple hairpin. It was drawn up shorter and tighter than the former corner at that section to allow for a wider track and more runoff.

- Some work may have to be done to the inside of Turn 8 in order to open this up a bit more.

- I added the Hairpin Turn 11 for 2 reasons: 1) Promoting braking battles to overtake coming into it, and 2) To break up the otherwise high speeds a car like an ALMS P1 could achieve here. This section coming up to, including, and after 11 are all very wide. Expect side-by-side slipstream battles constantly.

- Turn 14/15 added in to break up speeds coming out of the sweeping Turn 13, in which cars should be carrying plenty of speed from the straight before it.

- You could try to take Turn 16/17 flat out. TRY. I didn't tighten this section up to prevent speed more than to give drivers a little wake up call.


- I straightened out the section between what is now Turns 19/20 mostly to keep cars from breaking off their slipstream in the former esses section.

- The Turn 21/22/23 chicane added for safety. Will be somewhat wide, either only marked by kerbs or standing pylons (ala some British tracks). If anyone really thinks this can be bypassed with a straight SAFELY, then sure, ommit the chicane. But it doesn't look like it would happen.

- Turn 24 looks really fun to try to take flat out. That's all I have to say on that.

- Turn 25/26 is interesting. I believe that is actually the track's Helipad the course is running through! From the elevation chart, the run up to 25 is actually uphill, while there seems to be a dip immidiately after 26....

- Turns 27/28 are a relatively steep rise, a point fans would love to stake out, giving them a view of this section AND the oval/infield as well!

- Turn 29, one of the best vistas of this entire course and the highest point of the circuit. Drivers will have to be brave and have nerves of steel to try to attempt a diving pass here. Care is to be taken in the car suddenly feeling......"light".

- Sharp drop over to the final turns, Turn 30/31, which will more than likely be a kerb chicane (seeing that permanent pylons aren't practical here on the oval surface). I would expect all the final passing to be done at 29 rather than 30/31. This is more for safety so the cars won't carry massive speed into Turns 1 & 2/3 chicane.

So that's my run at the new road course at Phoenix. I hope you guys like it. Comments greatly appreciated.

Sorry mate, but you've killed one of the best veiwing points on the circuit, Rattlenake Hill, with part of your road course. :\ (That's the outside of the final corner on the oval, for those who don't know.

[Alwaysfirst]

Here's 2.
The Lausitzring:

I've changed the track for both of the ovals here. If I was doing this for real I'd probably widen the ovals & slightly inrease the banking as well.

Rockingham:

Big changes here. I'd expand the road track outside the oval, putting in a couple of very fast corners. The infield has also been speeded up by trying to cram less corners into the space.

Comments welcome!