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Old 11 Jan 2017, 06:45 (Ref:3701738)   #226
Gerard C
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Gerard C should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
HTPs

Just fantastic to watch people racing historic historic cars… If you remember what the HTP was meant to be, your car should have one with no issue. But … my understanding of the appendix is that all the elements must be period correct AND fully compliant by the old rules… So only two options. The car is compliant to its homologation form and enters in a known category (group 1, group 2, A, …) and Bob's your uncle you get it right away. Or you go through the CSAH and have a category recognized such like BSCC, french Production and then ask for an HTP complying with this category. Long walk but worth. Probably.
I know there"s a thread talking about appendix K and so on. Several members asked for info though (Coombs Jag' and others). The list of HTP's issued is public, no secret there. Could it be useful to open a thread talking about HTP's only? Not forgetting that they do not belong to us any more and that a compliant car can have its regular HTP called back for examination if my understanding is good.
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Old 11 Jan 2017, 13:55 (Ref:3701836)   #227
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Originally Posted by Gerard C View Post
Just fantastic to watch people racing historic historic cars… If you remember what the HTP was meant to be, your car should have one with no issue. But … my understanding of the appendix is that all the elements must be period correct AND fully compliant by the old rules… So only two options. The car is compliant to its homologation form and enters in a known category (group 1, group 2, A, …) and Bob's your uncle you get it right away. Or you go through the CSAH and have a category recognized such like BSCC, french Production and then ask for an HTP complying with this category. Long walk but worth. Probably.
I know there"s a thread talking about appendix K and so on. Several members asked for info though (Coombs Jag' and others). The list of HTP's issued is public, no secret there. Could it be useful to open a thread talking about HTP's only? Not forgetting that they do not belong to us any more and that a compliant car can have its regular HTP called back for examination if my understanding is good.
Gerard,

Appendix K has always recognised various regulations, take the example of IMSA which is exactly what a BSCC car would be in terms of rules. An IMSA CSL has nothing to do with a Group 2 or Group 5 CSL.

1 - The rules existed in period.
2 - They were different to Appendix J but based on it.
3 - They ran at an International level in terms of Calendar so they can be recognised.

In fine, isn't it better to have regulations accepted and cars to comply rather than leaving them out and letting people make-up history?

On the HTP not belonging to you, it has always been a document owned by the FIA and this is the same for Homologation. And in any case, it can be recalled or cancelled as per Appendix K Art. 4.3.4.
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Old 11 Jan 2017, 16:15 (Ref:3701868)   #228
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I know there"s a thread talking about appendix K and so on. Several members asked for info though (Coombs Jag' and others). The list of HTP's issued is public, no secret there. Could it be useful to open a thread talking about HTP's only?
My thoughts on the above part of your post are that any HTP questions could be incorporated into the Homologation Papers thread if the title was expanded. I think some HTP stuff has been covered in there already. (But I'm not going to read all way through to check!)

My powers don't include changing a thread title, so what do other mods think?
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Old 11 Jan 2017, 18:31 (Ref:3701890)   #229
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Thanks for your answer and yes its better to moderate what I wrote.

Last edited by Gerard C; 11 Jan 2017 at 18:38. Reason: precision
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Old 12 Jan 2017, 05:59 (Ref:3701972)   #230
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Old 12 Jan 2017, 06:30 (Ref:3701975)   #231
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Old 12 Jan 2017, 09:32 (Ref:3702016)   #232
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delta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddelta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddelta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
We have submitted HTP papers for several race cars recently." I seem to spend half the day sorting out papers "All have bounced back bar one. We have sorted out any issues and successfully resubmitted. but just recently applied for HTP for a Tiga Sports 2000. This car I have looked after for nearly 30 years and I know is absolutely spot on. Papers bounced back last week as we have a Hewland gearbox case on the car not a VW one. WTF.
I do think someone at MSA should have a bit of common sense. This car has a value of around £25.000.00 the owner just want to go motor racing.
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Old 12 Jan 2017, 12:32 (Ref:3702086)   #233
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We have submitted HTP papers for several race cars recently." I seem to spend half the day sorting out papers "All have bounced back bar one. We have sorted out any issues and successfully resubmitted. but just recently applied for HTP for a Tiga Sports 2000. This car I have looked after for nearly 30 years and I know is absolutely spot on. Papers bounced back last week as we have a Hewland gearbox case on the car not a VW one. WTF.
I do think someone at MSA should have a bit of common sense. This car has a value of around £25.000.00 the owner just want to go motor racing.
Delta, this is unfortunately the rule of period specification.

The owner might just want to go motor racing but this isn't a valid point as historic motor racing is about respecting the history I must say before thinking of racing.
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Old 12 Jan 2017, 13:32 (Ref:3702099)   #234
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delta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddelta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddelta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Delta, this is unfortunately the rule of period specification.

The owner might just want to go motor racing but this isn't a valid point as historic motor racing is about respecting the history I must say before thinking of racing.
Sorry Louis dont agree. Well cant agree.Just because the casing is visible we cant get HTP. I fitted a brand new CWP to one of the other cars. That,s OK then.??
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Old 12 Jan 2017, 14:00 (Ref:3702106)   #235
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I always thought that the Hewland casing was a direct copy and therefore replacement for the original VeeDub item?
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Old 12 Jan 2017, 19:49 (Ref:3702166)   #236
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On the Hewland casing, I presume they would be a VW copy as well. I am not involved anyway. But what I wanted to say, correct me if I'm wrong but the sake of being a racer and wanting to race does not mean anything has to be accepted. If not, just buy a modern car and go there as well.
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Old 13 Jan 2017, 02:29 (Ref:3702235)   #237
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Half a potato with VW carved into the flat side and some Belzona alloy metal filler is what you need Iain.
Its helped a lot of other owners out.
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Old 13 Jan 2017, 03:28 (Ref:3702241)   #238
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Half a potato with VW carved into the flat side and some Belzona alloy metal filler is what you need Iain.
Its helped a lot of other owners out.
It worked on the old Kent engine blocks ! anyway what are you doing up at this time of the morning ?
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Old 13 Jan 2017, 07:32 (Ref:3702274)   #239
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delta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddelta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddelta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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On the Hewland casing, I presume they would be a VW copy as well. I am not involved anyway. But what I wanted to say, correct me if I'm wrong but the sake of being a racer and wanting to race does not mean anything has to be accepted. If not, just buy a modern car and go there as well.
disappointing reply. I will send you a PM. Just want to know why, after running with this casing for the last 25 years someone at MSA says its not compliant.When I got the last set of FIA papers for this car with this gearbox there was no problem at all.
Must go I have to tell the owner who is 71 and probably only has a couple more years racing him we have to go and buy a Radical.
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Old 13 Jan 2017, 09:33 (Ref:3702299)   #240
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disappointing reply. I will send you a PM. Just want to know why, after running with this casing for the last 25 years someone at MSA says its not compliant.When I got the last set of FIA papers for this car with this gearbox there was no problem at all.
Must go I have to tell the owner who is 71 and probably only has a couple more years racing him we have to go and buy a Radical.
I would get your inspector to query the decision. Wouldn't be the first time that the 'powers', whether MSA or FIA, are wrong and just need telling.....

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