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Old 26 Dec 2013, 23:22 (Ref:3348078)   #31
SpeedingTortoise
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I see your point now. I'll try and make the esses towards the end of the lap a little faster and make the hairpin more open. I've found the measurements you put for the oval earlier in the thread so I'll do a final update with those. Should be up tomorrow or Sunday if I haven't got anything planned.

Also quick question. Is the oval going to be unchanged when the new track is being built or will there be changes to/the option to change it? Things like widening the track or repaving.
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Old 26 Dec 2013, 23:50 (Ref:3348080)   #32
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The oval will be unchanged, the oval corners have a width of 13 meter so I guess that a overall track width of 12 meters is good enough. The asphalt is brandnew, end of 2012 but can be widened on the straights which now is only 9 meters wide. The south corner has a positive camber of 70 cm height difference, measured from the inside to the outside of the corner, so that's 15 degrees banking? The new corners can have camber too but I think 10 degrees will do too, don't you think? Or better all the same 15 degrees?
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Old 27 Dec 2013, 12:11 (Ref:3348140)   #33
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Final Update

Here is the final update for the track. The oval is now the correct length and some parts have been altered to fit the extra space available. The oval's straights have been widened to 11m to match the new track. Track is now 4.95km.
Attached Thumbnails
test track holland4.jpg  
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Old 28 Dec 2013, 10:49 (Ref:3348298)   #34
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Great man that's an awesome lay-out! What we need more are the curbstones and the green sound walls around the whole area, which is 5 meter high and 13-15 meters wide.
Only the oval, and the longest straight has to be lowered a little until the green sound wall, according to the current track, which is quite close but it's already there,so,,see the pic



About the elevation changes: this is something you can't visualize from a bird-eye view but maybe you can make the track in Bobs Track Builder, although I know that takes serious time to build. I even want to pay you for a 3D animation because that would be necessary to make a professional proposal to the owner.
The red circles are the locations where 5-6 meter high hills, diameter 20+/-meter, needs to rise in order to create some blind entries for those corners.



This is their design of the pit building which needs to be build along the oval straight but this design can also be improved

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Old 28 Dec 2013, 16:10 (Ref:3348347)   #35
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Thanks. The first problem I have is that I can't use Bob's Track Builder but I know of someone who can so I've sent them a PM to see if they can help. What I can do is add detail to the Sketchup model, things like kerbs, barriers, access roads, the pit building, elevation, so that we can use it for visuals for a proposal.

The second problem I have is about the elevation. I think that the 5 you have shown is too many in terms of safety and cost. I don't know the budget of the track so I cant say if we can/cannot afford it but I think that from a safety point of view that the elevation your talking about is a risk I don't want to take. The results of getting it wrong can be severe. An example I know of is at the Slovakia Ring where there is a hill on a long straight that has seen cars go on to 2 wheels and one of them has flipped completely. Here's a video I have found of the hill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFFJ-ns8o1Q

Another question is how long the elevation is going to be on the track. It needs to be long enough to make the gradient flat enough to prevent the cars from taking off but I don't know how long that is. Is the elevation going to be long enough that it goes into the corners? I would only have 2 points of elevation and those would be the two furthest to the right. I'm not trying to scare you into not wanting this but what I'm saying is that this is something that we should think about carefully.
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Old 28 Dec 2013, 21:15 (Ref:3348425)   #36
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Ofcourse that degree of elevation is way too dangerous!
I was wrong about the radius of those 5 meter hills/elevations, it's far more than 20+ meters, it has too be at least 40 meters otherwise you'll be launched like in the video., but honoustly I don't have a clue but the purpose is to create a flowing blind entry with a heighest level point just before the apex. And indeed it needs to decrease height flowing into the corner with positive camber for maximum grip. Also the steepness of the last part towards the heighest level point determines whether the car or bike will be airborne, like Cadwell park that's a sick jump!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=33r-GQ23s2s
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Old 30 Dec 2013, 21:56 (Ref:3349049)   #37
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To calculate the elevation degree the rule is that the height increases with 10 meters over 100 meters with an elevation of 10%(5,71 degrees) but I think if we maintain a diameter of 100 meters with a 5 meter height than the elevation degree will be 11,51 degrees and that is 20% . A diameter of 150 meters and 5 meter height is 15% 8,51 degrees. That's 75 meter up and 75 meter down but to avoid any take-offs the upper(horizontal flat) part of the hill between up and down needs to be at least 50 meters.
Maybe you can try out in Sketch-up first a diameter of 100 meter and if that is too steep than you try a diameter of 150 meter with 5 meters height. Or you think 15% is also too steep?

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Old 2 Jan 2014, 11:55 (Ref:3349658)   #38
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Originally Posted by SpeedingTortoise View Post
Another question is how long the elevation is going to be on the track. It needs to be long enough to make the gradient flat enough to prevent the cars from taking off but I don't know how long that is. Is the elevation going to be long enough that it goes into the corners? I would only have 2 points of elevation and those would be the two furthest to the right. I'm not trying to scare you into not wanting this but what I'm saying is that this is something that we should think about carefully.
I calculated the gradient of those 5 meter high bumps/hills, with a 10%, 5,71 degrees we need 50 meter upwards, 50 meter horizontal upper level, and 50 meter downwards into the corner, for T7, T8, T10, and T12.



For the first hill before T5 we need a lower gradient because the approach is high speed so in order not to take off a 5%, 2,35 degrees is save.
That's 100 meter up, 50 meter horizontal upper level, and 100 meter downwards into the corner.



I just made some simple sketches but the tops of the hills need to be flowing, flattened out ofcourse. Did you try out something in Sketch-up about the gradients already?
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Old 2 Jan 2014, 16:43 (Ref:3349732)   #39
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Some images of the terrain and the current oval track







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Old 4 Jan 2014, 09:18 (Ref:3350276)   #40
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Originally Posted by SpeedingTortoise View Post
Thanks. The first problem I have is that I can't use Bob's Track Builder but I know of someone who can so I've sent them a PM to see if they can help. What I can do is add detail to the Sketchup model, things like kerbs, barriers, access roads, the pit building, elevation, so that we can use it for visuals for a proposal.
I don't know if you have read my messages but I replied your question about the elevation gradient. I was wondering if you already got an answer of the guy who is willing to visualize your design in Bobs track builder,,
Hope you are still in it so we can pull this of in order to make a proposal for the end of january,,
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Old 19 Jan 2014, 19:24 (Ref:3355981)   #41
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The track is finally done!! My most detailed track to date with kerbs, tyre barriers, white lines and a custom pit garages.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z96yovvul5...20holland3.skp
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Old 20 Jan 2014, 14:19 (Ref:3356277)   #42
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This diverse lay-out contains all aspects of what a real racetrack is about, great job man












Last edited by F1 lobby; 20 Jan 2014 at 14:24.
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Old 20 Jan 2014, 18:20 (Ref:3356362)   #43
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I commend the amount of detail that you have put into this.

I do query about the size of the gravel traps, as being overly large. At the end of the main straight there is 170m+ of gravel. At a real world circuit such as Barcelona there is only 75m of tarmac and gravel runoff combined.
Scaled from that, the other traps are huge as well.
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Old 20 Jan 2014, 20:11 (Ref:3356397)   #44
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Looks great! It's got a really good look, I may have to steal some of those textures It's cool to see how this project has developed!

I have to agree about the runoff size, however. Some are simply too big.
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Old 21 Jan 2014, 17:46 (Ref:3356793)   #45
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I agree that the gravel traps of T1, T7, T8, T9, T10 and T12 (the hairpin) are maybe too deep especially at the entries, so the gravel traps of the infield can be downsized but I think Speedingtortoise made them also so big to keep a nice square and equal looking shape. About T1 that's a huge gravel trap and also slightly too big but the space is there and imagine that you approach with nearly 300 km/h and you miss your breaking point completely, than an oversized gravel trap is not undesirable Im curious what Speedingtortoise thinks about this.

And by the way feedback of you guys is very appreciated and will be considered for sure..
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