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Old 24 Sep 2015, 10:11 (Ref:3576597)   #16
grantp
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Originally Posted by fieldodreams79 View Post
Yup, all our fault, like everything else in the world today.

The worst thing about our regulations is that the eliminate the good stuff from overseas.

Volkswagen AG Chief Executive Officer Martin Winterkorn has resigned.
The market for diesel cars in the States is less than 3% (or so I have read) and that market has only come into existence recently - possibly as a result of "Climate Change" regulations fiascos.

The market for diesel cars in Europe is and has always been much larger (Especially France and Germany historically) for a number of reasons.

The effects of any potential real problems related to the failure of the regulators to regulate when their own tests are undertaken would be tiny (but expensive) in the US but with the rest of the world piling in opportunistically could destroy the EU vehicle manufacturing base, especially that of Germany.

Except, perhaps, for the likes of formerly US government subsidised GM and Ford. Chrysler might be abandoned and hung out to dry now it is effectively owned by Fiat which, iirc, was close to bankruptcy a few years ago.

Since nearly all of the "experts" (especially those with an ecological or health drum to bang) are now being quoted as saying they could not understand how the reported figures and "pollution" levels did not seem to match (no alleged science cited though) for the past few years it seems clear that even the man in the street was probably well aware that the tests were likely to be meaningless in the real world.

It will be interesting to see of a minor regulatory problem in the US leads to a melt down in the European economy - especially in the Eurozone. Is confidence in things European is shaken strongly enough it just might especially with some of the other factors (refugees/migrants, Greece, Russia, etc.) all bubbling under.

As a perceptive UK politician once said when talking about unrecognised risks in politics. "Events, dear boy, events."

Meanwhile Winterkorn, who would no doubt have retired already had he not been in such a powerful and financially rewarding job, has resigned and taken, reportedly, a large pension pot with him along with a very comfortable salary from last year and, presumably, this year.

I think I would do the same if I was in his position. I certainly would not want to deal with the all of the crap hitting the fan.
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Old 24 Sep 2015, 10:51 (Ref:3576609)   #17
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This may require some digging to verify the story but, if it is as reported, either the VW management have been very stupid (historically), very inept since the report was published or the entire storm is being whipped up for some other purpose.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-Goliath.html


Presumably we will find out something closer to the reality in due course.
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Old 24 Sep 2015, 10:54 (Ref:3576610)   #18
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Does the average car buyer really care?

The faked results don't in any way impact the way the car drives - the consumer will not notice the difference between a car with the dodgy software and one without (I don't understand the recall of the cars for updates - it's going to make no difference to the owners).

Will anybody have bought one of the effected cars based on the emissions test results? Seems highly unlikely to me. If you're that bothered about emissions you buy a Prius (and ignore the environmental mess involved in the construction of those - but that's another story).

As far as I can see a large company has been caught cheating a government test - there's nothing to really worry the consumer. It's a test dodge rather than a fundamental safety flaw - I can't see how that's going to dent consumer confidence. If it does and the price of VW's falls through the floor I'll be straight out to bag myself a bargain.
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Old 24 Sep 2015, 11:42 (Ref:3576621)   #19
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I can't see how that's going to dent consumer confidence. If it does and the price of VW's falls through the floor I'll be straight out to bag myself a bargain.
Consumer confidence will do what it's told to do!

So I agree that there may be bargains to be had and even better of the "consumer confidence" problem covers the petrol engined variants as well. It probably will given the way these things work.

Unless, of course the VW management come up with a really clever way to gain the public's sympathy.

There's no obvious track record for such an approach as far as I know.
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Old 24 Sep 2015, 14:41 (Ref:3576654)   #20
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Does the average car buyer really care?
thats the multi billion dollar question right there.

hard to find direct comparisons but i feel something akin to the various scandals about the labeling of 'green' or 'organic' foods. there are numerous stories and exposes about the labels very often being mis representations but overwhelmingly people in general are still willing to pay a premium price for something that says 'organic' nor are they willing to do the research themselves.

granted a car is a far more expensive item but people also love bargains.

i own a 2014 Jetta 1.8L so im not directly affected by this, but i do wonder what effect it will have on the future resale of my car in general. i keep my car in good shape, its got the premium option package, and i service it regularly at an authorized VW dealership so i would think that the best trade-in im going to get (im not a fan of privately selling cars - dont like strangers coming to my house kind of thing) is going to be from VW provided i am buying a new car from them at the same time.

scandal or no, im happy with my car and if im getting a deal on my next one im inclined to stay within the VW family.

they have apparently hired the same law firm that represent BP in the aftermath of Deepwater Horizon so i would expect a very huge PR campaign to be a part of their defense.

im inclined to agree with mikuni that doubling down on motor sports is a good way to do this although a series which allows them to promote 'clean diesel' seems more the route they should take rather then F1 where frankly there is a good chance they will be made to look even sillier.
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Old 24 Sep 2015, 16:40 (Ref:3576687)   #21
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How could this impact company car owners?

I currently have a Golf Bluemotion 1.6 TDI.
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Old 24 Sep 2015, 16:57 (Ref:3576690)   #22
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Will anybody have bought one of the effected cars based on the emissions test results? Seems highly unlikely to me. If you're that bothered about emissions you buy a Prius (and ignore the environmental mess involved in the construction of those - but that's another story).
Buying a diesel car (vs petrol) in the US is not a casual decision. Buyers are likely looking at a combination of efficincy plus low or acceptable emissions. There has been a large push to tout the "clean diesel" nature of these cars plus the new low low sulfur fuel. Many arguments about what is the most "green" car to buy today can easily end with "get a diesel". So in short... yes they care.

While it ultimately is the evasion of the regulations that tripped them up, there WILL be fallout with consumers. VW already struggles here in the US. This will not go away quietly.

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Old 24 Sep 2015, 19:34 (Ref:3576744)   #23
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Does the average car buyer really care?

The faked results don't in any way impact the way the car drives - the consumer will not notice the difference between a car with the dodgy software and one without (I don't understand the recall of the cars for updates - it's going to make no difference to the owners).

Will anybody have bought one of the effected cars based on the emissions test results? Seems highly unlikely to me. If you're that bothered about emissions you buy a Prius (and ignore the environmental mess involved in the construction of those - but that's another story).

As far as I can see a large company has been caught cheating a government test - there's nothing to really worry the consumer. It's a test dodge rather than a fundamental safety flaw - I can't see how that's going to dent consumer confidence. If it does and the price of VW's falls through the floor I'll be straight out to bag myself a bargain.
Mercedes, BMW and Chevrolet all required the use of Urea (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) to reduce NOx levels to pass US emissions tests. VW said it's engine mapping scheme was good enough to meet "clean diesel" levels without the addition of DEF.

Now we know that they were gaming the system and those 11 million vehicles will either require a permanent software fix which will reduce engine power or the addition of a DEF system to maintain current output levels.

These cars probably lost about 20-30% of their resale value over night - so yes customers are going to care.
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Old 24 Sep 2015, 20:48 (Ref:3576768)   #24
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Mercedes, BMW and Chevrolet all required the use of Urea (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) to reduce NOx levels to pass US emissions tests. VW said it's engine mapping scheme was good enough to meet "clean diesel" levels without the addition of DEF.

Now we know that they were gaming the system and those 11 million vehicles will either require a permanent software fix which will reduce engine power or the addition of a DEF system to maintain current output levels.

These cars probably lost about 20-30% of their resale value over night - so yes customers are going to care.

Have VW really sold 11million small capacity 4 cylinder diesel powered cars in the US?
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Old 24 Sep 2015, 22:13 (Ref:3576797)   #25
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Have VW really sold 11million small capacity 4 cylinder diesel powered cars in the US?
No the 11 million is worldwide sales, all of which were fitted with this software defeat device. The US had about 500,000 of these vehicles and another 100,000 were sold in Canada which has nearly identical emission regulations
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Old 7 Nov 2015, 12:46 (Ref:3588795)   #26
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Here is a summary of VW's mounting financial and reputational woes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/francesc...into-the-mire/
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Old 11 Nov 2015, 16:38 (Ref:3589762)   #27
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yeah the CO2 allegations are a new level of bad for the company.

so i own a 2014 Jetta 1.8: TSI and to be honest i have never felt i have gotten the advertised gas mileage. no doubt most of it comes down to how i drive so i dismissed it to city driving, tires, the cold of Winnipeg etc but with this i have to wonder if there is a larger issue.

that said, everyone who owns an affected VW have at their fingertips a fuel mileage display (but who knows how well those even work)...if they were actually interested in fuel usage would they have/should they have noticed they were not getting what was advertised. perhaps they explained it away as i did.

but given the number of cars involved, im curious as to either why this took so long before anyone actually looked into this and/or how VW though they could get away with this for as long as they did?
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Old 12 Jan 2016, 16:14 (Ref:3604107)   #28
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[QUOTE=GORDON STREETER;3576268]But people in the know have known these silly loopholes for years so why does it take America to shout first ? things like pumping air into the exhaust to dilute the gasses and DPFs that just simply collect "soot" and chuck it out "up the road" have been going on for a long time ![/QUO
I don't know where you got these ideas from but you really should be more careful before posting such misleading information. Try Googling "ManAirOx" for some correct information on "pumping air into the exhaust". DPFs do indeed collect the soot, but the soot is later burnt off during regeneration, either actively or passively. It is not just chucked out "up the road"!!
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Old 12 Jan 2016, 19:04 (Ref:3604152)   #29
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But people in the know have known these silly loopholes for years so why does it take America to shout first ? things like pumping air into the exhaust to dilute the gasses and DPFs that just simply collect "soot" and chuck it out "up the road" have been going on for a long time ![/QUO
I don't know where you got these ideas from but you really should be more careful before posting such misleading information. Try Googling "ManAirOx" for some correct information on "pumping air into the exhaust". DPFs do indeed collect the soot, but the soot is later burnt off during regeneration, either actively or passively. It is not just chucked out "up the road"!!
Believe what you like but still being actively involved in the garage trade for the last 50 years tell me what you do for a living ?
I often have to do regenerations and "forced regenerations" on cars with DPFs and I would like you to stand behind a car whilst I am doing it and you may change your mind !!
As you have had a pop at me I suggest that you don't believe all what you read on the internet and find the real truth, I can be a "keyboard warrior" as well as you
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Old 15 Jan 2016, 07:29 (Ref:3604965)   #30
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Investigations now going on at Renault also. Evidently there is the suspicion that they too may have been cheating emission tests. Now there's a surprise. The VW situation is merely the tip of the iceberg.
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