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Old 13 Apr 2016, 21:12 (Ref:3632441)   #31
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Leaving aside Austin, which has various issues, the only North American permanent, natural-terrain, road courses that I can confidently say are, right now, up to IndyCar's standards, are Road America, Mid Ohio, Watkins Glen, Barber, Sears Point (in a rather neutered form), Laguna Seca, and Mexico City.

The racing isn't that great on the layout of Sears Point the series uses. I'm not convinced that the racing would be that good at the reconfigured Mexico City, either.

All the other road courses not mentioned here would probably need added debris fencing, at least.

Also, this leaves a rather large part of the country without a major road race even remotely nearby.
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Old 13 Apr 2016, 21:48 (Ref:3632453)   #32
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True on American road courses. Speedways are also purpose built for racing usage which is what I'm also referring to. I'd much rather see this series at the Milwaukee Mile or the like, to provide those types of circuits some revenue over a cobbled together street course that may or may not fall apart during the race and potentially be a monetary loss for a city.

I did enjoy the trolley tracks in San Jose. Sure the drivers and crews would disagree.
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Old 13 Apr 2016, 22:06 (Ref:3632457)   #33
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Oh yeah. Cleveland. Someone make it happen.
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Old 14 Apr 2016, 14:52 (Ref:3632650)   #34
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For ovals, they need date stability, among other things, for those to work.

Also, apart from getting Milwaukee and Fontana back, plus maybe adding Gateway or New Hampshire, that would cover most of what I think ovals could add to the calendar.

Nazareth is basically out of the picture. Rockingham is going up for public auction. Pikes Peak isn't all that different from Iowa, Richmond, or the redone Phoenix. If I was going to add Kentucky or Nashville, I'd do so in lieu of Texas. The other 1.5-milers are high-banked now.
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Old 14 Apr 2016, 15:40 (Ref:3632656)   #35
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Leaving aside Austin, which has various issues, the only North American permanent, natural-terrain, road courses that I can confidently say are, right now, up to IndyCar's standards, are Road America, Mid Ohio, Watkins Glen, Barber, Sears Point (in a rather neutered form), Laguna Seca, and Mexico City.

The racing isn't that great on the layout of Sears Point the series uses. I'm not convinced that the racing would be that good at the reconfigured Mexico City, either.

All the other road courses not mentioned here would probably need added debris fencing, at least.

Also, this leaves a rather large part of the country without a major road race even remotely nearby.
Penske's recently been going on about the North West, so what sort of shape is Portland in?
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Old 14 Apr 2016, 16:14 (Ref:3632674)   #36
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For ovals, they need date stability, among other things, for those to work.

Also, apart from getting Milwaukee and Fontana back, plus maybe adding Gateway or New Hampshire, that would cover most of what I think ovals could add to the calendar.

Nazareth is basically out of the picture. Rockingham is going up for public auction. Pikes Peak isn't all that different from Iowa, Richmond, or the redone Phoenix. If I was going to add Kentucky or Nashville, I'd do so in lieu of Texas. The other 1.5-milers are high-banked now.
Nashville is closed, so 2017 is out of the question, but there's still a chance for future races, I guess.

I prefer flat ovals over the 1.5 high banks; I don't really consider 14 degrees high banks, but it's certainly not flat. The Magic Mile would be fantastic.

Never would've thought about The Rock for IndyCars; would be interesting but not conducive imho due to severe tire degradation. It will soon join the likes of North Wilkesboro and Nazareth. Damn shame.
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Old 14 Apr 2016, 16:23 (Ref:3632677)   #37
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Penske's recently been going on about the North West, so what sort of shape is Portland in?
It's in fantastic shape in this picture!


Quick search, here's some road course events:
http://portlandraceway.com/?/events/...ts/auto_racing
http://portlandraceway.com/?/events/...le_road_racing
There's also Friday and Saturday drags.

Plenty of action / support it seems at the circuit itself. I've always enjoyed watching races there. Back stretch is fantastic, final turns / front straight always seemed to be competitive, and the park like venue is hard to beat.

Not sure of safety concerns. Looking at the map, maybe T10 & T11? Purist, what you got on PIR?
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Old 14 Apr 2016, 19:35 (Ref:3632743)   #38
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Which one is the "Magic Mile"?

I still consider 14 degrees to be a moderate bank. The thing is, it's just Nashville and Kentucky that are at that level now. Chicagoland was always 18 degrees. Homestead, Kansas, and Las Vegas have all been raised to 18-20 degrees in the turns.

As for Portland, I think they'll probably need to add/redo a fair amount of debris fencing.

I don't think the run-off has changed much at Turns 10/11 and 12 since the previous ChampCar and ALMS races, so I'm not as concerned there.

If I see an issue, it's in the Turn 7 and 8/9 area. Turn 7 has been moved outward by, I'd guess, around 150ft. It is tighter now, but it's now a longer run out of T6, and a straighter shot right off toward the tires. More importantly though, the run into Turns 8/9 is longer, and those turns will be faster. Turn 8 is rather abrupt, and has almost no run-off, and T9 will feel tighter than it used to, and doesn't have a huge run-off either, through the first part of it.

It may be alright in the dry, but I have some doubts about how things could go at T8/9 in the rain. We've seen accidents there before in damp conditions. If someone exits T7 well, but the guy in front does not, T8/9 can act as a bottleneck when negotiating that traffic. Also, T8 might not be totally flat-out in the wet.

For the most part, I think it's fine. (The biggest thing, for me, is, I'd like to see them run it without the chicane. Narrowing from six lanes to three in 1000ft sure seems a hell of a lot better than going from six lanes to one almost instantly.)

Last edited by Purist; 14 Apr 2016 at 19:46.
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Old 14 Apr 2016, 20:25 (Ref:3632764)   #39
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Magic Mile is New Hampshire and at no more than 7 degrees, is much better for OW racing (and has always been), imho. Homestead, Kansas, Vegas, Kentucky etc. are just too high for my liking, but that's the minority opinion, I think.

Good stuff on PIR. I don't mind the chicane, but it's been tooooooo long since I've seen a race telecast.
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Old 15 Apr 2016, 04:09 (Ref:3632825)   #40
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I'd agree that Homestead, Kansas, Chicaoland, and Las Vegas have more banking than I want for open-wheel racing, at least for 1.5-mile ovals. However, Kentucky only has 14-degree turns, like Fontana and the outside of the turns at Iowa, so I don't really have the same worries about that one that I do with the other aforementioned, or places like Texas.

Thanks for clarifying that nickname thing with New Hampshire. I have to say though, that what made the racing on the 1.0-mile ovals so good with CART was the traffic, and having a real speed differential through the field. This led to some wild lines as the leaders were dicing and working around (soon-to-be) lapped cars. You don't have that now, so even at New Hampshire or Milwaukee, it's not the same deal as it was back then.

I'd off-and-on thought that it would be interesting to see Indy Cars at Rockingham, at least once. It's an irregularly-shaped oval, kind of like Nazareth, but with corners banked like Texas/Charlotte/Atlanta. However, with it only being a 1.017-mile oval, I'm less concerned specifically with the banking angle. The tire degradation and ability to use multiple lines in the turns would certainly be MUCH better than what the IRL faced at Dover.

And yes, I absolutely would like to see a major series, with TV coverage, back at Portland.
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Old 15 Apr 2016, 21:00 (Ref:3633104)   #41
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Kentucky turn 1-2 is being changed to 17 degrees.
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Old 18 Apr 2016, 16:14 (Ref:3634488)   #42
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Kentucky turn 1-2 is being changed to 17 degrees.
My guess is that Kentucky Speedway does still not care for IndyCar so it's unlikely the series would return. So it doesn't really matter if the renovations render the track less suitable which they most likely will.

However, here's hoping the renovations will help Kentucky in fixing their problem with weepers. Doesn't Kansas Speedway have the same problem?
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Old 18 Apr 2016, 16:31 (Ref:3634494)   #43
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Both Kansas and Kentucky have the same problem and that's they are too similar to all other newish American ovals. Outside Iowa, which resembles Richmond, most are too similar. Alas, they're ovals and in the end and it's tough to have some variety, I reckon, but something like Salem, Rockingham, the old Atlanta, etc. Something different would be a nice change.
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Old 18 Apr 2016, 16:38 (Ref:3634497)   #44
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I would like to see another super speedway in the mix.
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Old 19 Apr 2016, 00:39 (Ref:3634671)   #45
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Lime Rock would be a really cool track to see Indycars on. Don't think the safety standards are good enough though.
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