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Old 30 Aug 2006, 20:41 (Ref:1698010)   #16
Al Weyman
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Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!
Raced against Salvador bit of a nut case, came past me wholely on the grass at Coombe and nearly took me out big time. Maybe Tim Dodwell the Road Saloons daddy will pop in and throw some light on the subject.
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Old 30 Aug 2006, 21:24 (Ref:1698052)   #17
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Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!
I have a glass fibre boonet fitted to my black IROC as an 82/3 model had similiar from factory. Anyhow I stove it into the back of a Rover at Snett once and apart from some cracks in the paint now covered with a number square I have used it ever since and if that was steel it would have need replacing trust me and would have cost in excess of several hundred pounds secondhand if i could find one and probably £500 if i cound not! Fibre glass on race cars aint a bad deal as it goes.
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 06:54 (Ref:1698201)   #18
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John Martinson - VW Scirocco - Last seen in the northern series some time ago in a very scruffy sequential boxed Clio.

Simon Taylor - Honda Civic - Used to double on races with the Road Saloons. Last seen a year or so ago in the LMA Euro Saloons that absorbed Road Saloons after the BRSCC screwed that up as well.
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 07:27 (Ref:1698216)   #19
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Pete Featherstone

Pete, did race a few times in Stock Hatch but retired after an accident and sold car etc earlier in the year
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 07:38 (Ref:1698217)   #20
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Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!
The scrutineer at Snet I met recenly introduced himself as the driver I used to do battle with in a similiar Sunbeam Talbot to mine (sorry can't remember his name).
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 07:49 (Ref:1698227)   #21
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A few years ago, Lol Dyke was seen in 750 Hot Hatch. Corolla GT I seem to recall. Would have been 1999/2000/2001
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 08:09 (Ref:1698248)   #22
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Originally Posted by andypipe
Ive never complained about cost. I go where i think i am getting more value for my hard earned
Andy, can you define 'value for my hard earned'?
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 16:01 (Ref:1698614)   #23
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Originally Posted by Al Weyman
Raced against Salvador bit of a nut case, came past me wholely on the grass at Coombe and nearly took me out big time. Maybe Tim Dodwell the Road Saloons daddy will pop in and throw some light on the subject.
Salvador (Valiente) moved to Spain a few years ago, plays with bikes nowadays (non-competitively).
Shame about the Super Road Saloons - in the early 90's they voted to be allowed trailers, and then the formula slowly faded until it got swallowed up with the mod-prods, becoming the Toyo's - which will join with Classic Thunder in 2007, I believe.
The Budget Road Saloons morphed thru Slick 50 to Lumenition, and then voted for trailers also. Surprise! They too then faded, and got amalgamated into the LMA Euro Saloons. Simon Jackson was the last to drive to his races, but has now started trailering.
Still think the idea of a road going series is a good one (but I'm biased), but an attempt to recreate it (the Highway Saloons) flopped for various reasons. The biggest being that you can get on the tracks now without all the hassles of racing (expensive transponders, entry fees, changing safety equipment etc) - via track days. Not so much fun methinks though.
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 16:55 (Ref:1698654)   #24
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big andy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridbig andy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
the Toyo's - which will join with Classic Thunder in 2007 is this correct
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 17:05 (Ref:1698659)   #25
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COLIN STUBBS should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
seen ralph underwood still pedalling the TR7 v8 with bloody great slicks at cadwell this season.
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 19:34 (Ref:1698775)   #26
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R59 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridR59 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by big andy
the Toyo's - which will join with Classic Thunder in 2007 is this correct
Confusion - it reins!

History lesson part deux....

BRSCC Super Road Saloons, became the Toyo Tyres Super Road Saloon series in 1990. The series evolved through 1991 with the inclusion of Limited Slip Diffs in the rules when it was deemed that it was difficult to tell if a car had a Torque Biasing Diff in it (ie: it passed the one wheel in the air test), without going to invasive strip-downs/sealing.
Then in 1992, the MoT regulations were tightened which meant that cars that met the SRS regulations could fail a MoT on the new tighter emissions regulations. Therefore, the car had to be capable of passing a MOT test, with the exception of the emission tests.
As I understand it, our "sister series" Slick50 Road Saloons still had to pass the MoT, and drive to/from the race meeting.

In 1994-5 the series was doing very well. With full grids of Class C cars, and full grids of A, B & D. By now the Toyo prize money was gone - a change of MD who wasn't into cars (how strange!), took the sponsorship money to his local cricket team (allegedly). Things were rosy.

I think it was 1996 or 7 when there were grumblings about the rules needing to be brought up-to-date to allow things that were common on production build cars, I can't remember the exact bits in need, but the upshot was a change to the engine classes, and a rule which would have ruled out many of the series stalwarts through the age of their cars. (They were thinking about the Castle Combe Series which had a 3 years out of production rule, and was full to the brim).

That killed it.

I can feel sour about that because I developed an engine which could give be a chance at being on-par with the 1800cc Fiesta's which dominated the series (Watson, Pearson, Robey, etc..) I ran it at three meetings, throwing it on pole at Lydden by a country mile, only to suffer a stupid fault which at a circuit with a pit-lane would have been fixed quickly (rear exhaust mounting rubber came off!). My 1763cc Nova was on the pace (when I managed to get the headgasket to seal - it was a prototype!). The capacity limits changed, with the idea of having up to 1600, 1600 to 2000, and 2000 an up (I think that's what it was).

They lost all of the Mk2/Mk1 Escorts, Sunbeams, and the Mk1 Fiesta's from Class C, just about everyone from Class B, and most of Class A.

They created a "interim" class for the old Class C 1800's for 1998.

In 1999 it because the "Ripspeed Super Road Saloons" and continued to die.
I remember seeing reports with 6th: Joe Blogs.. no other finishers.... on more than one occaision.

Denis - would you like to continue.

Whether a "traditional" Road Saloons series would work is difficult to say, like Tim said, Track Days are so much easier than getting messed up with ARDS, MSA rules & regs, etc...

I do feel that the ethos behind Slick50 Road Saloons, and Super Road Saloons pre-rule "improvements" was right, and if left alone, could still be healthy today.

Rob.
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 20:52 (Ref:1698833)   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis Bassom
John Martinson - VW Scirocco - Last seen in the northern series some time ago in a very scruffy sequential boxed Clio.

Simon Taylor - Honda Civic - Used to double on races with the Road Saloons. Last seen a year or so ago in the LMA Euro Saloons that absorbed Road Saloons after the BRSCC screwed that up as well.
Simon Taylor won the LMA Euro Saloons championship last year in his old Road Saloons Civic. Has done a couple of races this year in a Civic Type R
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 20:54 (Ref:1698836)   #28
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Originally Posted by big andy
the Toyo's - which will join with Classic Thunder in 2007 is this correct
This is being discussed at the moment (a bit of an open secret!). The general feeling is the two series are a very good fit and, with a few compromises on both sides, would make one larger and very interesting place to run more modified saloon cars competitively but without excessive costs.

Seeing a minimum grid of 20 highly modified and very varied cars (FWD, RWD, saloons, coupe's, hatchbacks, Ford, Toyota, Pug's, Rovers etc etc etc) will hopefully persuade people to try it out and swell grids further.

There are some interesting and fairly original ideas proposed for the regs that will allow as competitive a class structure as possible.

Everybody I have spoken to is very enthused by what is proposed.

However, I must stress that nothing is official yet and also that I don't want to hijack this thread on the subject.
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 21:08 (Ref:1698848)   #29
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Rob, sorry I have to disagree with you.

Racing has 'evolved' beyond all recognition in the last 17 years I have been doing it.

Andy and Al's comments really summed it up. People don't mind spending their money on their cars which inevitably means more modified cars.

What they do mind is then getting very poor value for money on race day. In Super Road Saloons case this was demonstrated when half way through a season a set of proposed regs appeared that alienated well over half the field. If the BRSCC really believed that a bunch of club racers were just going to say "OK I'll throw away my now worthless car and build a new one" they were incredibly dumb. Personally I think it was just a ploy to get rid of us!

The problem is defining good/bad value for money.

Take DTRC for example. The regs allow very highly modified and expensive machinery to be created but it is staggeringly successful. Ironically the only series that is similar in terms of success is Stock Hatches, arguably at the very opposite end of the potential expenditure scale.

The likes of Super Road Saloons and Mod Prods sat/sit somewhere in the middle and have suffered smaller grids.

Maybe there are two markets developing. Highly modified and very lightly modified with little in between.

I'd agree that both Road Saloons and Super Road Saloons SHOULD be successful ideas, but they just don't seem to be.
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Old 1 Sep 2006, 07:37 (Ref:1699071)   #30
Al Weyman
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I think DTRC is really a race within a race and I doubt that this format will survive much longer as it will be forced to split. Basically more or less anything goes in Class A from Space framed HotRods to big engined Sports Cars and 4WD ex-WRC Rally cars. All the other classes are very similiar to Mod-Prods/Classic Thunder in fact I have seen guys interloping between the championships me included.

Now this is fine at the moment if you do not mind being lapped in a very short while by some of the monster machines in Class A (the novelty of that will wear thin, trust me) but I do believe that eventually the championship may become a victim of its own success (if not handled correctly) and grids will have to be split. Now when this happens I would say the logic split would be Class A runs in one race and all the others in the next. So what does this leave you with? Essentially two different championships which IMHO is exactly what it is. The Class A akin to Northern Saloons and the old Thunder Saloons and all the other classes with Mod-Prods and Classic Thunder.

Now something on trailering and a confession (I have told this before so bear with me). I totalled my Sunbeam Talbot Road Saloon at Oulton on the practice slowing down lap after being nerfed by an SDI (jealousy) after putting it on pole position. Anyhow watching the race and wondering how the hell I was gonna get the mangled wreck 250 miles down the M1 I got chatting to Brian Sheridan who's car had blown an engine and was in a similiar position. He asked me my thoughts on trailering and I said it sucks, he then suggested that if I could draw up a set of regs and offered some ideas (the now much copied multi-valves up a class was our innovation) he could get the sponsorship together and we could start a rival series. Which we did and it was very, very successful and that I have to confess was the first nail in the coffin of the drive to track Road and Super Road Saloons as many of their drivers came over to us especially as there was money to be earnt (good cash prize money and even a payment for finishing the first lap).

Also and please correct me on the details but I have strong recollections of a guy, a VW driver returning back from Brands after competing in a Road/Super Road Saloon race and no doubt with with shot tyres and brakes and having a nasty accident on the M25 (may even have been fatal). I am sorry and I know me and Tim who I have a lot of respect for, will never agree but IMO race cars must be trailered to and from the circuit and not to and encourage others to do the same is just downright irresponsible in this day and age of totally over subscribed roads.
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