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Old 25 Apr 2017, 20:11 (Ref:3729183)   #376
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Originally Posted by P38 in workshop View Post
I see only negatives if Honda is in receipt of a competitors help.For one thing it is a public acknowledgement of employing a team of engine developers who are not much good compared to the opposition.It also gives said rival the opportunity to market themselves as being so good that Honda had to come to them for help.Which company comes out of this situation looking best?

Is there an independent specialist with the level of expertise to help the project?We have had stories of Mario Ilien being used as an external consultant with the current generation of engines.Could there be other options too?Two or three current engines given to a discreet consultancy with a blank cheque might be a less conspicuous way to make progress and obviously they ought to maintain a parallel company programme?

I wouldn't expect McLaren to have any quibble with the need to modify the packaging of the car if performance follows on.They certainly need to do something to add to the trophy collection if they are to avoid the fate of other formerly great teams like Cooper,BRM,Brabham,Alfa Romeo,Lotus and Tyrrell.
From a PR point of view, I don't see how Mercedes helping Honda can be good for Honda. Then again it's probably only die hard fans who are really interested in the finer details of motorsport. The casual fan, probably isn't interested, which is why they are casual fans in the first place, along with your average motorist. Still I think it's a bit of a gamble.

How long does this current engine/PU spec have to run?

Last edited by bjohnsonsmith; 25 Apr 2017 at 20:17.
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Old 25 Apr 2017, 20:25 (Ref:3729185)   #377
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Autosport- http://www.autosport.com/news/report...8400e-36366415

Note the headline says Merc 'could' assist, so still speculation- probably! Some interesting snippets of info, though.....
Unfortunately, I can't read that as I've run out of my free views of Autosport this month. Maybe I should subscribe?
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Old 25 Apr 2017, 20:30 (Ref:3729186)   #378
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Unfortunately, I can't read that as I've run out of my free views of Autosport this month. Maybe I should subscribe?
Apologies- I guess I haven't run out of free views!

I don't seem to be able to copy and paste from this device. I'll try from a laptop in the morning......l
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Old 25 Apr 2017, 20:36 (Ref:3729190)   #379
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Apologies- I guess I haven't run out of free views!

I don't seem to be able to copy and paste from this device. I'll try from a laptop in the morning......l
Thanks but no need, I went to sister publication motorsport.com and they have it.
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Old 25 Apr 2017, 20:46 (Ref:3729191)   #380
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The current engine rules run to 2020 with the new ones due to start in 2021.
I suspect if Mercedes helping Honda out might have something to do with building long term alliances with the future regs. Mercedes might want to have the next power units something similar to what is there at the moment.
Of the manufacturers involved now I suspect Honda would have most to gain from a major regulation change.
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Old 25 Apr 2017, 21:16 (Ref:3729196)   #381
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That Autosport article is all over the place and seems a bit of an echo chamber of rumors that have been floating around. Nothing definitive.

I still doubt the entire "Mercedes" part, but I suspect that there may be some nugget of truth to this entire topic. Enough that all sides may claim "they were right". I expect what is going on is that Honda is open to outside ideas and actively seeking help. But IMHO, it's likely that it may come from various independent consultants (i.e. Mario Illien, etc.) or industry players (i.e. Mahle, Bosch, etc.) and not other manufactures.

I don't want to rehash much of the arguments from above. In general I think it would be a huge mess with respect to protecting "secret sauce" on both sides. IMHO, Honda comes out the looser in this long term if they partner up with someone like Mercedes.

We will just have to wait and see what happens.

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Old 25 Apr 2017, 22:25 (Ref:3729198)   #382
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20 million to supply 2014/15 technology. Why wouldn't Merc do it???
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Old 25 Apr 2017, 23:23 (Ref:3729202)   #383
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20 million to supply 2014/15 technology. Why wouldn't Merc do it???
Would Honda want to pay 20 million for Mercedes' hand me downs from 2014/15?
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Old 26 Apr 2017, 01:27 (Ref:3729215)   #384
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Be cheaper than anything else they have done...
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Old 26 Apr 2017, 03:18 (Ref:3729221)   #385
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McLaren are to get a reliability update for the Russian GP. I hope it works.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129143
Will it be slower... less revs, less boost, less electrical harvesting...
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Old 26 Apr 2017, 08:34 (Ref:3729251)   #386
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Will it be slower... less revs, less boost, less electrical harvesting...
But it should give them pointers in what direction to go.
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Old 26 Apr 2017, 12:56 (Ref:3729290)   #387
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They've already got hope from the Bahrain test, hopefully the reliability update will help them further
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Old 26 Apr 2017, 14:32 (Ref:3729313)   #388
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Will it be slower... less revs, less boost, less electrical harvesting...
Based upon the article and the Bahrain test results, this should improve performance and not go in the other direction.

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Old 29 Apr 2017, 18:34 (Ref:3729935)   #389
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So, is it confirmed now that McLaren get Mercedes engines and Sauber get Honda ones?
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Old 29 Apr 2017, 18:52 (Ref:3729937)   #390
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So, is it confirmed now that McLaren get Mercedes engines and Sauber get Honda ones?
Where did you get that from?
McClaren still performing dismally today in quali..
Gives another meaning to sweet FA...
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Old 29 Apr 2017, 22:30 (Ref:3729959)   #391
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So, is it confirmed now that McLaren get Mercedes engines and Sauber get Honda ones?
Where did that come from?

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Old 29 Apr 2017, 22:54 (Ref:3729967)   #392
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Where did that come from?

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Eddie Jordan's piece on them in the Channel 4 practise feed today. That's what he talked about. I wanted to know if there was an official statement.
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Old 29 Apr 2017, 23:25 (Ref:3729970)   #393
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Eddie Jordan's piece on them in the Channel 4 practise feed today. That's what he talked about. I wanted to know if there was an official statement.
No there has been no 'official statement'. If Sauber switches to Honda, there will obviously be an 'official statement' released. That will be made public without a doubt.

McLaren aren't switching to Mercedes (yet). However, Mercedes is helping Honda with technical assistance to improve parts of their PU. The PU consists of six elements. Not just the engine. Their has been no 'official statement' from either party that this is in fact taking place. And I doubt there ever will be.

Just as there was no 'official statements' when Mercedes helped Renault and Ferrari with their PU's. But for most, if an 'official statement' has not been released, then it didn't happen. Not everything that happens in the F1 paddock is put on paper. Most things still work on a hand shake. A 'contract' or an 'agreement', means diddly squat in F1. They can be made and broken with a simple nod of the head, or a handshake. No signed papers required.
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Old 29 Apr 2017, 23:30 (Ref:3729971)   #394
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No there has been no 'official statement'. If Sauber switches to Honda, there will obviously be an 'official statement' released. That will be made public without a doubt.

McLaren aren't switching to Mercedes (yet). However, Mercedes is helping Honda with technical assistance to improve parts of their PU. The PU consists of six elements. Not just the engine. Their has been no 'official statement' from either party that this is in fact taking place. And I doubt there ever will be.

Just as there was no 'official statements' when Mercedes helped Renault and Ferrari with their PU's. But for most, if an 'official statement' has not been released, then it didn't happen. Not everything that happens in the F1 paddock is put on paper. Most things still work on a hand shake. A 'contract' or an 'agreement', means diddly squat in F1. They can be made and broken with a simple nod of the head, or a handshake. No signed papers required.
Did Mercedes help Renault and Ferrari with their PU's?
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Old 29 Apr 2017, 23:41 (Ref:3729973)   #395
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Did Mercedes help Renault and Ferrari with their PU's?
There was no 'official statement'.

We'll have to wait for Charlie Whiting's book 'My life in F1. The inside stories.' We might find out then.
But their hasn't been an 'official statement' from Charlie that he's writing a book.
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Old 29 Apr 2017, 23:59 (Ref:3729975)   #396
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So, F1 seems to be the place where a strong denial can be a confirmation.

However, in this case I believe what both Mercedes and McLaren have said after EJ apparently said a deal had been done for Mercedes power for McLaren in 2018. Both sides said it was false.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...-claim-899851/

Regarding talk of Honda getting some type of break from F1, that is not happening. And the related rumor about technical assistance from Mercedes, Honda has said that is not true.

Right now, IMHO the vaste majority of what is being said about McLaren/Honda is pure speculation. If you dig, you can find some good information directly from Hasegawa at Honda.

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Old 30 Apr 2017, 00:09 (Ref:3729978)   #397
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There was no 'official statement'.

We'll have to wait for Charlie Whiting's book 'My life in F1. The inside stories.' We might find out then.
But their hasn't been an 'official statement' from Charlie that he's writing a book.
Well it all sounds like a load of hooey to me.
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Old 30 Apr 2017, 00:16 (Ref:3729979)   #398
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There was no 'official statement'.

We'll have to wait for Charlie Whiting's book 'My life in F1. The inside stories.' We might find out then.
But their hasn't been an 'official statement' from Charlie that he's writing a book.
You haven't been here long, but you are quickly becoming one of the "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" members who implies he knows all or is some type of insider. Usually dribbling out enough bits to keep us hooked, but never a full meal. Time will tell if you are as you imply, or not. It will be entertaining either way!

Oh, there has to be an obligatory wink or smile emoji that says... This is all just a joke for good fun... or not.

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Old 30 Apr 2017, 10:27 (Ref:3730036)   #399
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If you dig, you can find some good information directly from Hasegawa at Honda.
No you don't really have to "dig" that much. The usual F1 publications have articles where Hasegawa hasn't been willing to disclose publicly who exactly is helping Honda. The only comments Hasegawa has made to the media of late are "We are utilising every source from outside." - "We don't disclose any consultants or supplier, but we are using lots of outside resource." and the like. See THIS article from autosport.com published a few days ago for example.

And why do you think Hasegawa isn't willing to disclose? Could it be that...
Quote:
"Hello, my name is Yusuke Hasegawa. I am head of Honda's Formula One programme. And we are currently working with Mercedes AMG High Performance Powertrains to assist us with our power unit issues."
...is too hard of a pill to swallow for the Japanese manufacturer?? Do you really believe Hasegawa would actually admit to the media that Honda have sought assistance from an outside resource, that happens to be a rival manufacturer??


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You haven't been here long, but you are quickly becoming one of the "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" members who implies he knows all or is some type of insider.
Yeah, ok... whatever you reckon, Dick. *wink*,*wink*,*nudge*,*nudge*
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Old 30 Apr 2017, 10:51 (Ref:3730043)   #400
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Yeah, ok... whatever you reckon, Dick. *wink*,*wink*,*nudge*,*nudge*
Ooooh burn!

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