[V8ST12R03] Manfeild - 27–29 Apr 2012

[Biggy G]

For all the dramas, what a day! Wet running, dry running and a fantastic race to cap it off, keep and eye on the drives from Bell and Pedersen in R1, both drove the wheels off their cars.

My photos from today: Saturday V8 Supertourer Photos

[DX20VT]

Originally Posted by Point2

Others teams are putting it down to the oil being used.
I spoke to drivers and their teams while we where on the pitwall Friday
They have had no problems at all. But oil type popped up in conversation more than once by more than one team.

We have stuck oil type and overheating being related together also on some race cars.
One car we were involved with was running on a new type of oil and overheated in 10 mins of qualifying.
An oil change later and it completed the 3 hour enduro later that day with no problems.
We found the the car had a large oil cooler fitted,
but the new type of 'better' oil did not absorb heat from the engine as well as one of it's "benefits'.
This meant the heat not absorbed by the oil and lost by the oil cooler now also has to be lost through the radiator which was just too much for it.

Other simple fixes could be a change of fuel, as have found the 98 creates more heat than avgas,
and of course E85 is a geat cooler, but E85 requires more than just a drain and refill of the gas tank, there is a lot of other stuff to look at too.

[on_to_it]

I'm not an expert on this engine overheating issue, but why would you put baffles in a dry sumped engine in an attempt to fix it (as I believe V8ST have said they will do). I thought baffles were only used in high performance wet sumped engines. Anyone?

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Perhaps MPC got their sums wrong and didnt find the magic trick to keeping the engines alive like other teams?

The organisers are suggesting there may be an engine installation problem on some cars. As this team seem to be having the most drama, you might accept that could be the case. But MPC didn't build their cars, they were assembled by the same people who have built other cars that aren't having problems.

[Southern Man]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

I'm not an expert on this engine overheating issue, but why would you put baffles in a dry sumped engine in an attempt to fix it (as I believe V8ST have said they will do). I thought baffles were only used in high performance wet sumped engines. Anyone?

Perhaps they are having an issue with the oil running away from the scavenge pump pick up due to G force under braking, acceleration and/or cornering. If the scavenge was not working correctly and the engines were holding oil in the sump and associated areas then this too could lead to the overheating of the lubricant and the resultant loss of heat transfer capabilities

[on_to_it]

That makes sense. I understand the problems are connected with higher g-forces than expected - lots of grip, high corner speeds and big brakes.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

The organisers are suggesting there may be an engine installation problem on some cars. As this team seem to be having the most drama, you might accept that could be the case. But MPC didn't build their cars, they were assembled by the same people who have built other cars that aren't having problems.

So does this give credence to the oil type/brand selection issue?

Or indeed are the 2 ex-V8Supercar pilots in the SuperCheap cars pushing them too hard for a production based engine package?

Interesting Mr Scott's car doesnt overheat... with that Peak Antifreeze signage

[harcey]

well interesting day at manfeild---good racing from the super tourers and a few surprises.nice job richard moore in race 3.
support classes--crap..
Crowd, POOR--i was at the feb tier 1 event and this crowd today would have been half that,which must be a concern.
main class was bloody good then,rest of program disapointing.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

So does this give credence to the oil type/brand selection issue?

It seems logical doesn't it. I guess we'll hear more in due course.

[Biggy G]

Gotta agree Harcey, the supports here at Manfeild were the worst viewing in the 3 rounds to date. BUT, the ST racing was the best i've seen yet, Manfeild was a fantastic track for these guys, lots going on and plenty of passing. Crowd did seem pretty low, would point most of that at the combination of poor weather and TV3's coverage.

Seeing Colins car get torn up like that sucked, hope the RP guys can get it straightened out and running in time for Hampton Downs, also hopefully the Supercheap boys are back and firing at 100%.

Photos from today:
V8ST - Round 3 Manfeild- Sunday

[Speedwayracer44]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

I'm not an expert on this engine overheating issue, but why would you put baffles in a dry sumped engine in an attempt to fix it (as I believe V8ST have said they will do). I thought baffles were only used in high performance wet sumped engines. Anyone?

Perhaps when mr short gained anlawful access to SCR's workshop and in between photographing and measuring their cars, he also put some foreign objects in the oil!

[harcey]

Originally Posted by Speedwayracer44

Perhaps when mr short gained anlawful access to SCR's workshop and in between photographing and measuring their cars, he also put some foreign objects in the oil!

dude--what are you on .................??????

[Speedwayracer44]

Harcey, dont know if you missed my post after yesterdays revelations and maybe it was a bit of tounge and cheek but if this is the level MSC MPL or MSNZ associated personell are willing to stoop to then anything is possible.

[Goat Boy]

Really good racing today, most impressive! Apart from the two DNS cars and the terrible crash, didn't seem to be any further incidents re reliability so that was good. Disappointing if turnout was low (hard to see from TV mind you but I don't know where spectators go normally at Manfeild).

Nasty looking weather will keep all but the most fanatical of fans at home and watching it live on TV. Probably as well the winter break has been extended a bit, I'm sure September is better than August.

See you all at Hampton Downs!

[promax]

maybe $45 is too much for a race meeting that is very top heavy. with st talk leading up to this weekend.. of bigger crowds then what was World Superbike rounds.. you would've thought they had pre sold a lot of tickets. the Manawatu Saloon Champs was (meant to be) held over the same weeking.. so seeing a small crowd was disappointing.

[Chappelli]

Wasn't the flashest of weekends for Weather either.. not great for crowds.

[harcey]

Originally Posted by promax

maybe $45 is too much for a race meeting that is very top heavy. with st talk leading up to this weekend.. of bigger crowds then what was World Superbike rounds.. you would've thought they had pre sold a lot of tickets. the Manawatu Saloon Champs was (meant to be) held over the same weeking.. so seeing a small crowd was disappointing.

promax since the world superbike champs more than half the crowd capacity has been removed with the pit garages which took out the entire main middle embankment.
i was amazed at such bluster from the circuit in the build up to the event...they will be crying when the add up the receipts for yesterday

[promax]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

Wasn't the flashest of weekends for Weather either

oh c'mon.. that's a typical Manawatu weekend

[promax]

Originally Posted by harcey

promax since the world superbike champs more than half the crowd capacity has been removed with the pit garages which took out the entire main middle embankment.
i was amazed at such bluster from the circuit in the build up to the event...they will be crying when the add up the receipts for yesterday

plus with marquees taking most of the room on the embankments (at these sort of meetings).. i was wondering where everyone was going to fit?

[flyingduck]

Can any one explain to me why Booth and Heimgartner stopped to change tyres, I thought that a pace car was brought out if it was deemed a dry race to allow all cars to change. Mr Booth lost 2 laps that he would not get back if a safety car was out. Have the rules changed or does the booth team not know them?

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by flyingduck

Can any one explain to me why Booth and Heimgartner stopped to change tyres, I thought that a pace car was brought out if it was deemed a dry race to allow all cars to change. Mr Booth lost 2 laps that he would not get back if a safety car was out. Have the rules changed or does the booth team not know them?

13.8 During Practice, Qualifying and any Race, wet weather tyres must be used after the Track has been declared wet by the Race Director directing that the Wet Weather Board be displayed at the Line. Wet weather tyres must continue to be used and dry weather tyres may not be fitted until the Dry Track Board has been displayed at the Line.

Did the Dry Track Board come out or has the rule changed?

I can't imagine AV8 don't know the rules.

[Club racer]

Originally Posted by harcey

promax since the world superbike champs more than half the crowd capacity has been removed with the pit garages which took out the entire main middle embankment.
i was amazed at such bluster from the circuit in the build up to the event...they will be crying when the add up the receipts for yesterday

Plenty of misinformation here. As usual.

Some of you lot ought to be banned for lying on forums - are you motorsport fans or not? I was there all weekend and sure, Saturday was a washout, but talking to the circuit operators, the old school photographers and a few others, they said it was the best crowd there for years. These people had no reason to be conservative with the truth. I was also at the last Tier 1 meeting there and you are having a laugh if you think that crowd was bigger than last Sunday, or your are blind.

Granted it is not easy to get support classes motivated for the winter months - perhaps you should put your money where your (big) mouth is and try yourself. Talking to one of the Honda guys on Saturday (a VERY experienced Tier 1 production racer who was having an absolute ball), he was telling me the Honda guys had told him they had put in some 2000 hours collectively organizing their events this year on top of their regular jobs. And he thought they had done a far better job with that class than anything he had seen in Tier 1. That tallies with my own experience elsewhere in motorsport - those guys running their onw classes do it out of love and passion and it is rare you will not find a successful one that does not have gthree or four people finding two or three hours a night after work to make it happen - certainly that's the case in the States and in the UK. Perhaps if the TMC guys had spent that much time working for the sport instead of creating pointless and dodgy coffee carts or breaking into sheds to measure SuperTourers, motorsport in this country might be in a slightly better shape. That may sound strong, sure, but is it not the truth?

I'd even go a bit further. Perhaps if some effort had been put into recruiting younger marshalls, rescue outfits and following something like the Team Green example of the US - a function which surely must be led by the national governing body - then help might well have gotten to Mr Corkery a little quicker yesterday. That was a huge shunt, and it ably demonstrated how far behind the game the sport in NZ is compared with other countries. Doubt that? Then do a bit of research and find out how much effort other governing bodies are doing to lead on the promotion to, and development and training of, their marshalls. It all seems connected to me. It rather turns my stomach that basic things like track safety seem to play second fiddle to the cash machine as far as the governing body and its promotional tumour are concerned. Good job the car (and its fuel cell) were so strong - that;s all I can say and we were about 75 metres from the shunt.

Onto another topic on this threead - suport classes. One-off classes for one off winter events are always going to be tough (in any country) - and it showed, they were poorly populated apart from the jap class boys - but give these guys a chance. This is their first year, sixteen cars, eight more to come, more big name drivers and all alot of you do is seem to do is focus on the negative.

On technical issues - any new class getting up and running so quickly with brand new machines will have teething troubles - you are in cloud cuckoo land if you think this is unusual. Go and do some research on some of the problems NASCAR had with their CoTs, or DTM, or the BTCC. Sure V8ST has some engine problems, but they'll fix them. GP2 had some very serious gearbox issues when it did a new car, they fixed them. I bet there were more problems on the cars in the support classes than there were down the V8ST pitlane all told.

The region's top drivers are talking with their feet too. I saw Tim Edgell, Angus Fogg and Jack Perkins all kicking around, and Edgell and Perkins both tested the prototype V8ST car, along with - I believe - Andrew Anderson (Not sure on this one though). Why have I not seen the new NZV8 car out testing with drivers of this calibre? It's a nice looking car, surely 'all' those who have bought one would have been out testing the prototype keen to mitigate any teething troubles they may have - especialy given V8ST's growing pains.

I'm American and this must be a Kiwi thing, to bag something as much as you possibly can and lie about it on a public forum. Utterly lamentable for people calling themselves motor racing fans.

Fortunately - for every one of the idiots on here, there must be 100 or more who are thrilled to see a new series like the SuperTourers - after all said and done a small crowd is better than no crowd, which is where top line motorsport in this country had got to.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Club racer

Perhaps if the TMC stooges had spent that much time working for the sport instead of creating pointless and dodgy coffee carts or breaking into sheds to measure SuperTourers, motorsport in this country might be in a slightly better shape.

Any new class getting up and running so quickly with brand new machines will have teething troubles - you are in cloud cuckoo land if you think this is unusual. Go and do some reasearch on some of the problems NASCAR had with their CoTs, or DTM, or the BTCC.

Fortunately - for every one iof the idiots on here, there must be 100 or more who are thrilled to see a new series like the SuperTourers - after all said and done a small crowd is better than no crowd, which is where top line motorsport in this country had got to.

Absolutely correct on all counts.

[harcey]

[QUOTE=Club racer;3067218]
I was there all weekend and sure, Saturday was a washout, but talking to the circuit operatiors, the old school photographers and a few others, they said it was the best crowd there for years. I was at the last Tier 1 meeting there and you are having a laugh if you think that crowd was bigger than last Sunday, or your are blind.

ive been going to manfeild since day1 in 73 including cars and bikes and stand by what i said..........wasnt bagging super tourers,thought they were great,just that was an average crowd for what is tauted everywhere and the next great thing

[flyingduck]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

13.8 During Practice, Qualifying and any Race, wet weather tyres must be used after the Track has been declared wet by the Race Director directing that the Wet Weather Board be displayed at the Line. Wet weather tyres must continue to be used and dry weather tyres may not be fitted until the Dry Track Board has been displayed at the Line.

Did the Dry Track Board come out or has the rule changed?

I can't imagine AV8 don't know the rules.

Thanks for that, so did dry track board come out and in a race do they bring a safety car out so drivers can complete the change?

My Maths meant AV8 had to be 14 seconds a lap faster on the Dry Tyres for them to catch up the 2 laps?